he missed one point - gasoline cars are much more heavily subidized than electric.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
How is that? Which country are you talking about?
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Hello? Care to expand on that?
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Just seen a report coming out about reliability of new cars, tesla came last. Whilst the other makers like mercedes and volvo had issues mostly with infotainment tesla had more serious problems (as demonstrated by many afficionado videos on yt).
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GKhan (Old Spike)
Let me guess - the "paid for" JD Power survey? Tesla wasn't officially included in it but mentioned with incomplete data. The quality is measured in the first 90 days to which Tesla fixed most/all of the issues identified.
Not to say Tesla doesn't have issues, they do. But JD Power is embelishing the other auto manufactures. Anyone who is interested needs to check out YT videos identifying Tesla's issues and see if it's going to be a deal breaker for them. Unfortunately, many may simply make an assumption based on this unofficial ranking.
Tesla is not officially ranked among other brands in the study, as it doesn’t meet ranking criteria. Doug Betts, president of the automotive division at J.D. Power, explains: “Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla doesn’t grant us permission to survey its owners in 15 states where it is required. However, we were able to collect a large enough sample of surveys from owners in the other 35 states and, from that base, we calculated Tesla’s score.”
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Sorry, can't remember where I saw it. As reported in many YT videos these were relatively serious quality issues unacceptable for a car in that price range. I personally still see Tesla as a prototype manufacturer, where such things can be expected hence I would not buy one, even with a huge discount.
As much as I (have grown to) like the idea of an electic car (and I would like them to succeed, I am not a Tesla or Musk hater, although his tunnels and vacuum train do make me chuckle) tesla have started running before they mastered walking efficiently, the fanboys don't care though.
Fanboys are not even deterred by a failed presentation of a useless and expensive feature like the bullet proof glass.
Where I live less than 2% (yes that is TWO) of electricity is generated by renewables so there is not even an environmental aspect to consider. We also do not have a dealer or service point on the island.
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GKhan (Old Spike)
A lot of the issues are around the new model 3 which they have already delivered more than all their other vehicles ever. So there is bound to be some issues and it also inappropriatly reflects on Tesla as a whole because the model 3 is the majority of their sales. As for serious quality issues, I'm not sure what the bar is. But for the fanboys buying Model 3s they are hyper critical of the car so panel gaps, paint issues and other consmetic issues are getting a lot of attention. Not sure if I haven't seen anything like brake failures or a dead car on delivery or what I would call - serious issues.
As for Tesla being a protyotype manufacturer, not sure what this means as they clearly are selling production vehicles. Now they are innovating at a rate that is much faster than other auto manufactueres and from this perspective one could argue they will always be prototyping. The 100 year old auto industry is very stagnant. Large innovations have stopped and they have had decades to focus on process innovation which typically results in quality improvement. I beleive this is what will be their downfall. It is painful watching them trying to catch-up to Tesla.
Anyway, the quality will come in the Model 3. It may take some time, it's really not hard, it just takes time and effort. Unfortunately, Tesla is selling cars so fast, it is difficult to justify slowing down to focus on quality right now. As well, from a bottom line, it looks better to ship the cars and recognize them as sold then fix quality issues afterwards. And it's been very tight for them recently. So give a year or so with more plants and more deliveries (less covid), they will have some breathing room for deliveries.
At the end of the day, you may simply need to experience it to like it.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Absolutely correct: This is what I meant by running before they can walk. Paint and panel gaps are serious quality issues a car like the model 3 shouldn't have at production stage, this is unacceptable for any other car, manufacturers know that and hence they bloody make sure this does not happen. If this is overlooked there may be more serious issues ahead like rust and noises etc.. One also does not get the conficdence in the overall quality.
So don't expect anyone bat the pure fanboys to cut them any slack for this.
"...the quality will come in the Model 3."
It probably will but until then count me out for buying one. These issues are not limited to model 3 neither.
Lastly: The only electric car I ever test drove was the Hyndai Kona (we dn't have tesla here). Even this is an excellent experience from a driving point of view. I really would want an electric car if it weren't for the price tag and the battery issue.
I will go to the Porsche dealer some time and test drive the Taycan too soon, this will be quite an experience I guess.
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GKhan (Old Spike)
I believe the Kona is the next best affordable option out there. It does look nice and I have sat in a friends but haven't driven it. I may have actually got one but unfortunately they had run out of batteries by mid January 2019 so no more deliveries. :(
I can say with confidence that this statement is only partially true and changing fast "So don't expect anyone bat the pure fanboys to cut them any slack for this.".
Panel gaps just require adjustments in most cases. I had some done when I took my car in for a fan noise (that had disappeared by the time I took the car in). The paint issues are more troubling and it is inconsistant. My car looks fantastic but if I look on the rear side above the wheel wells, I can definitly see some mini puddling.
To help alleviate concerns though Tesla offers a 7 day return window.
Anecdotaly I see a lot more non-fan boys (and girls and zes) buying the Model 3. I am actually quite surprised. Many new owners are happy to have one but not obssessed with it. They really want a reliable car. The biggest concern is over range anxiety which is not much of an issue any longer. Honestly, it's rare to see new owners comment on quality issues, I actually beleive it was the critical fan boys who made such an issue out of all issues and created so much awareness. I mean it makes sense, the fan boys are obssessive people which means they would translate that into being OCD about every last little thing.
Sounds like you can't get access to one where you are. I'm sure you could rent one on travels, I was looking at getting one via Turo for a long drive to use the auto pilot. As for price tag, give it a few more years. :)
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Tesla or Kona range is not an issue where I live. Battery life is as they are hellishly expensive (still) when they are fucked (for a VW Golf 16k€ to replace one).
I really would like an electric car, however, atm costs (buying as well as whole life) are prohibitive and the environmental aspect does not really exist where I live.
Comments
(Old Spike)
he missed one point - gasoline cars are much more heavily subidized than electric.
(Old Spike)
How is that? Which country are you talking about?
(Old Spike)
Hello? Care to expand on that?
(Old Spike)
Just seen a report coming out about reliability of new cars, tesla came last. Whilst the other makers like mercedes and volvo had issues mostly with infotainment tesla had more serious problems (as demonstrated by many afficionado videos on yt).
(Old Spike)
Let me guess - the "paid for" JD Power survey? Tesla wasn't officially included in it but mentioned with incomplete data. The quality is measured in the first 90 days to which Tesla fixed most/all of the issues identified.
Not to say Tesla doesn't have issues, they do. But JD Power is embelishing the other auto manufactures. Anyone who is interested needs to check out YT videos identifying Tesla's issues and see if it's going to be a deal breaker for them. Unfortunately, many may simply make an assumption based on this unofficial ranking.
Tesla is not officially ranked among other brands in the study, as it doesn’t meet ranking criteria. Doug Betts, president of the automotive division at J.D. Power, explains: “Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla doesn’t grant us permission to survey its owners in 15 states where it is required. However, we were able to collect a large enough sample of surveys from owners in the other 35 states and, from that base, we calculated Tesla’s score.”
(Old Spike)
Sorry, can't remember where I saw it. As reported in many YT videos these were relatively serious quality issues unacceptable for a car in that price range. I personally still see Tesla as a prototype manufacturer, where such things can be expected hence I would not buy one, even with a huge discount.
As much as I (have grown to) like the idea of an electic car (and I would like them to succeed, I am not a Tesla or Musk hater, although his tunnels and vacuum train do make me chuckle) tesla have started running before they mastered walking efficiently, the fanboys don't care though.
Fanboys are not even deterred by a failed presentation of a useless and expensive feature like the bullet proof glass.
Where I live less than 2% (yes that is TWO) of electricity is generated by renewables so there is not even an environmental aspect to consider. We also do not have a dealer or service point on the island.
(Old Spike)
A lot of the issues are around the new model 3 which they have already delivered more than all their other vehicles ever. So there is bound to be some issues and it also inappropriatly reflects on Tesla as a whole because the model 3 is the majority of their sales. As for serious quality issues, I'm not sure what the bar is. But for the fanboys buying Model 3s they are hyper critical of the car so panel gaps, paint issues and other consmetic issues are getting a lot of attention. Not sure if I haven't seen anything like brake failures or a dead car on delivery or what I would call - serious issues.
As for Tesla being a protyotype manufacturer, not sure what this means as they clearly are selling production vehicles. Now they are innovating at a rate that is much faster than other auto manufactueres and from this perspective one could argue they will always be prototyping. The 100 year old auto industry is very stagnant. Large innovations have stopped and they have had decades to focus on process innovation which typically results in quality improvement. I beleive this is what will be their downfall. It is painful watching them trying to catch-up to Tesla.
Anyway, the quality will come in the Model 3. It may take some time, it's really not hard, it just takes time and effort. Unfortunately, Tesla is selling cars so fast, it is difficult to justify slowing down to focus on quality right now. As well, from a bottom line, it looks better to ship the cars and recognize them as sold then fix quality issues afterwards. And it's been very tight for them recently. So give a year or so with more plants and more deliveries (less covid), they will have some breathing room for deliveries.
At the end of the day, you may simply need to experience it to like it.
(Old Spike)
Absolutely correct: This is what I meant by running before they can walk. Paint and panel gaps are serious quality issues a car like the model 3 shouldn't have at production stage, this is unacceptable for any other car, manufacturers know that and hence they bloody make sure this does not happen. If this is overlooked there may be more serious issues ahead like rust and noises etc.. One also does not get the conficdence in the overall quality.
So don't expect anyone bat the pure fanboys to cut them any slack for this.
"...the quality will come in the Model 3."
It probably will but until then count me out for buying one. These issues are not limited to model 3 neither.
Lastly: The only electric car I ever test drove was the Hyndai Kona (we dn't have tesla here). Even this is an excellent experience from a driving point of view. I really would want an electric car if it weren't for the price tag and the battery issue.
I will go to the Porsche dealer some time and test drive the Taycan too soon, this will be quite an experience I guess.
(Old Spike)
I believe the Kona is the next best affordable option out there. It does look nice and I have sat in a friends but haven't driven it. I may have actually got one but unfortunately they had run out of batteries by mid January 2019 so no more deliveries. :(
I can say with confidence that this statement is only partially true and changing fast "So don't expect anyone bat the pure fanboys to cut them any slack for this.".
Panel gaps just require adjustments in most cases. I had some done when I took my car in for a fan noise (that had disappeared by the time I took the car in). The paint issues are more troubling and it is inconsistant. My car looks fantastic but if I look on the rear side above the wheel wells, I can definitly see some mini puddling.
To help alleviate concerns though Tesla offers a 7 day return window.
Anecdotaly I see a lot more non-fan boys (and girls and zes) buying the Model 3. I am actually quite surprised. Many new owners are happy to have one but not obssessed with it. They really want a reliable car. The biggest concern is over range anxiety which is not much of an issue any longer. Honestly, it's rare to see new owners comment on quality issues, I actually beleive it was the critical fan boys who made such an issue out of all issues and created so much awareness. I mean it makes sense, the fan boys are obssessive people which means they would translate that into being OCD about every last little thing.
Sounds like you can't get access to one where you are. I'm sure you could rent one on travels, I was looking at getting one via Turo for a long drive to use the auto pilot. As for price tag, give it a few more years. :)
(Old Spike)
Tesla or Kona range is not an issue where I live. Battery life is as they are hellishly expensive (still) when they are fucked (for a VW Golf 16k€ to replace one).
I really would like an electric car, however, atm costs (buying as well as whole life) are prohibitive and the environmental aspect does not really exist where I live.