We are biological organisms nothing more, there is no reason for evolution to somehow give us an alternative to life, death is final and nothing happens when we die.
The fear of death is there for evolutionary reasons but you are corect that if i stop existing then fear also stops so we are afraid of nothing.
I consider death to mean no consciousness and that means each and every one of us have died and came back to life about 365 times in a year so Jesus ain't nothing special.
If we are not conscious then we do not exist and there are parts during the sleep cycle when we do no dream and are unconscious so we cease to exist.
I am not talking about the times when we don't remember our dreams but the times when we are fully unconscious. Sure other brain areas are still online but the part that is important, the consciousness or experience of something is missing.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
We seem to be on the same page.
You can achieve life after death as a memory &/or through your offspring. Ghengis Khan for example, he lives on through a lot of people both as a memory & from all the kids he had, especially as they also became rulers with records kept etc.
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
LOL - no one is completely unconscious when they sleep. Even during the phases where there is no REM, the mind is monitoring externally. You didn't know this? I don't know the answer to death with absolute certainty, but I'm always stunned by those who speak as though they do. There's plenty of evidence and experience that counters your absolutism. I've lived a life where an entire decade of it was an odyssey of physical pain, especially the final 5 years of the ordeal. I've been to a place where a total absence of sensation and consciousness was welcome - the materialist incomprehensible nothingness of absolute death. When you're wracked with pain every day and no one seems able to help it becomes attractive as hell. A friend of mine from childhood killed herself after years of living with chronic back pain - she was 35. I'm sorry but as attractive as death may be, based on everything I've seen and studied no factual determination on that question can be made at this time.
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blue_devil (Short Spike)
"LOL - no one is completely unconscious when they sleep. Even during the phases where there is no REM, the mind is monitoring externally. "
Then what are you conscious of ? Are you not the mind? Or at least the conscious part of the mind ?
Also there are people that go under full anestesia while the doctors operate on them so they are not conscious of pain or anything else.
" I've been to a place where a total absence of sensation and consciousness was welcome - the materialist incomprehensible nothingness of absolute death. "
That does not make a lot of sense i mean if there is no sensation or conscioussness then what else is left ? What were you aware of ? If you were aware of something then you were conscious of it thus you were not unconscious.
I do try to make informed logical extrapolations and from the perspective of evolution there is no life after death, we may infact be inclined to believe that there is some sort of continuity because this idea has a calming effect. This is also the reasoning behind a lot of religious belief systems, don't worry everything will be fine in the end sort of stuff.
Let's not forget that we are also not the only conscious animals on the planet, do chickens get an afterlife? do apes? do plants ? Where do all the trillions of sole's go ? This whole sole math makes no sense and is just wishfull thinking.
There is no ghost in the machine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VXiF1MRvIE
" There's plenty of evidence and experience that counters your absolutism "
I sure would like you to provide some examples.
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puttefnask (Old Spike)
I don't know what happens when you die, but I can guess that it's nothing good.
You are afraid of dying for a reason. You're afraid of dying even before being indoctrinated with religious ideas about heaven and hell. You may not understand the concept of death, but the brain is perfectly able to understand the concept of pain.
You feel pain for a reason. If a baby gets its leg cut off or breaks its back, the pain is equally intense as it would be for an adult. The difference is that it will cause more trauma if it survives. An adult will recognize pain and understand at least somewhat the probability of their wounds being fatal. Maybe even have a higher pain-threshold. For a child who isn't experienced with pain, the brain automatically treats it as if it's the end of all things.
Some children die screaming in agony. To pretend that the brain gives them some kind of "everything's alright"-lullaby because DMT is released by the brain is equally probable as a trip through hell. There are bad DMT trips that are fucking nightmarish.
When someone is completely dead, nothing is going on. Scientifically there is no evidence for consciousness floating around or being taken somewhere. It all stops with the last thing that went through the person's head before it died.
And my thought is that it might be some horrific unimaginable shit.
We're trying to comfort ourselves by making these ideas about an afterlife, because deep down, subconsciously we already know that it's worse than anything. And people who claim they're sick of life and wants to die, old people, suicidal people, their last thought is probably that they regret that thought. Old people die screaming all the time. They were not fucking ready.
I'm not here to comfort your ass to an early grave. Evolution created the central nervous system. Get healthy. Stay away from cliffs you retards. Gravity is real. Hope for a quick painless death whenever that may be. And try not to be the idiot who got him or herself killed. You have one job, stay alive.
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
The majority of near death experiences are intensely positive, but a small minority are terrifying. Both types of experience appear to produce profound life changes in those who shook hands with death.
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
And for many near-death experiencers one of those life-changing things is they stop being afraid of dying because at least for them, they know it's not the end.
True or not, living your life without the fear of death would certainly be a big burden off your shoulder and would make you more easy going.
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
And to add to this, it's interesting that those who are terminally ill and are given mushroom therapy report that afterwards they feel very much okay about death. What's that about? Living without fear of death is really demonstrated by the film "Hacksaw Ridge". There are many other examples. Many psychopaths have a combination of fearless personality condition and anti-social personality disorder - they tend not to fear death. Hero soldiers and cops also have fearless personality condition - they lack the anti-social aspect but were apparently born with an instinctual understanding that death is not the end.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
I made peace with death in my late teens & can tell you it is a burden off your shoulders. It doesn't take away fear though. Fear of pain is still there & an unwillingness to die is still there. It's just not a scary concept to not exist. It is inevitable, why fear it? Fear is the mind killer.
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
I think the fear of death is much more than just fearing the inevitable physical end. It includes the psychological form or ego too that we try to constantly preserve. It runs our lives even when it isn't an actual life and death situation. Every "hit" the ego takes is a small psychological death that we resist, how much depends on the size of the ego. It can be something mundane like losing an argument or something bigger like going bankrupt. The same mechanism is at play where the ego resists change and trying to keep the status quo intact because it is a small death every time something goes wrong.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Totally. I think to live completely ego-free is difficult for social interaction so it's best to not kill it off completely unless you want to be a monk. How much you're aware of what your ego's doing & how much you let it run your life is up to you. Not fearing death & having an opinion on what happens after you die are separate things. For the the latter came much later.
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
"I think to live completely ego-free is difficult for social interaction so it's best to not kill it off completely unless you want to be a monk.How much you're aware of what your ego's doing & how much you let it run your life is up to you"
Yes. I guess it depends on how you define it, but I would say the ego only exists when it goes unchecked. You can be a perfectly functioning human being and be more or less "egoless".
Comments
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
That's a good answer!
(Old Spike)
nothing happens
"I think therefore I am" stops being true.
(Short Spike)
I am also tired of this kind of after death crap.
We are biological organisms nothing more, there is no reason for evolution to somehow give us an alternative to life, death is final and nothing happens when we die.
The fear of death is there for evolutionary reasons but you are corect that if i stop existing then fear also stops so we are afraid of nothing.
I consider death to mean no consciousness and that means each and every one of us have died and came back to life about 365 times in a year so Jesus ain't nothing special.
If we are not conscious then we do not exist and there are parts during the sleep cycle when we do no dream and are unconscious so we cease to exist.
I am not talking about the times when we don't remember our dreams but the times when we are fully unconscious. Sure other brain areas are still online but the part that is important, the consciousness or experience of something is missing.
(Old Spike)
We seem to be on the same page.
You can achieve life after death as a memory &/or through your offspring. Ghengis Khan for example, he lives on through a lot of people both as a memory & from all the kids he had, especially as they also became rulers with records kept etc.
(Old Spike)
LOL - no one is completely unconscious when they sleep. Even during the phases where there is no REM, the mind is monitoring externally. You didn't know this? I don't know the answer to death with absolute certainty, but I'm always stunned by those who speak as though they do. There's plenty of evidence and experience that counters your absolutism. I've lived a life where an entire decade of it was an odyssey of physical pain, especially the final 5 years of the ordeal. I've been to a place where a total absence of sensation and consciousness was welcome - the materialist incomprehensible nothingness of absolute death. When you're wracked with pain every day and no one seems able to help it becomes attractive as hell. A friend of mine from childhood killed herself after years of living with chronic back pain - she was 35. I'm sorry but as attractive as death may be, based on everything I've seen and studied no factual determination on that question can be made at this time.
(Short Spike)
"LOL - no one is completely unconscious when they sleep. Even during the phases where there is no REM, the mind is monitoring externally. "
Then what are you conscious of ? Are you not the mind? Or at least the conscious part of the mind ?
Also there are people that go under full anestesia while the doctors operate on them so they are not conscious of pain or anything else.
" I've been to a place where a total absence of sensation and consciousness was welcome - the materialist incomprehensible nothingness of absolute death. "
That does not make a lot of sense i mean if there is no sensation or conscioussness then what else is left ? What were you aware of ? If you were aware of something then you were conscious of it thus you were not unconscious.
I do try to make informed logical extrapolations and from the perspective of evolution there is no life after death, we may infact be inclined to believe that there is some sort of continuity because this idea has a calming effect. This is also the reasoning behind a lot of religious belief systems, don't worry everything will be fine in the end sort of stuff.
Let's not forget that we are also not the only conscious animals on the planet, do chickens get an afterlife? do apes? do plants ? Where do all the trillions of sole's go ? This whole sole math makes no sense and is just wishfull thinking.
There is no ghost in the machine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VXiF1MRvIE
" There's plenty of evidence and experience that counters your absolutism "
I sure would like you to provide some examples.
(Old Spike)
I don't know what happens when you die, but I can guess that it's nothing good.
You are afraid of dying for a reason. You're afraid of dying even before being indoctrinated with religious ideas about heaven and hell. You may not understand the concept of death, but the brain is perfectly able to understand the concept of pain.
You feel pain for a reason. If a baby gets its leg cut off or breaks its back, the pain is equally intense as it would be for an adult. The difference is that it will cause more trauma if it survives. An adult will recognize pain and understand at least somewhat the probability of their wounds being fatal. Maybe even have a higher pain-threshold. For a child who isn't experienced with pain, the brain automatically treats it as if it's the end of all things.
Some children die screaming in agony. To pretend that the brain gives them some kind of "everything's alright"-lullaby because DMT is released by the brain is equally probable as a trip through hell. There are bad DMT trips that are fucking nightmarish.
When someone is completely dead, nothing is going on. Scientifically there is no evidence for consciousness floating around or being taken somewhere. It all stops with the last thing that went through the person's head before it died.
And my thought is that it might be some horrific unimaginable shit.
We're trying to comfort ourselves by making these ideas about an afterlife, because deep down, subconsciously we already know that it's worse than anything. And people who claim they're sick of life and wants to die, old people, suicidal people, their last thought is probably that they regret that thought. Old people die screaming all the time. They were not fucking ready.
I'm not here to comfort your ass to an early grave. Evolution created the central nervous system. Get healthy. Stay away from cliffs you retards. Gravity is real. Hope for a quick painless death whenever that may be. And try not to be the idiot who got him or herself killed. You have one job, stay alive.
(Old Spike)
The majority of near death experiences are intensely positive, but a small minority are terrifying. Both types of experience appear to produce profound life changes in those who shook hands with death.
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
And for many near-death experiencers one of those life-changing things is they stop being afraid of dying because at least for them, they know it's not the end.
True or not, living your life without the fear of death would certainly be a big burden off your shoulder and would make you more easy going.
(Old Spike)
And to add to this, it's interesting that those who are terminally ill and are given mushroom therapy report that afterwards they feel very much okay about death. What's that about? Living without fear of death is really demonstrated by the film "Hacksaw Ridge". There are many other examples. Many psychopaths have a combination of fearless personality condition and anti-social personality disorder - they tend not to fear death. Hero soldiers and cops also have fearless personality condition - they lack the anti-social aspect but were apparently born with an instinctual understanding that death is not the end.
(Old Spike)
I made peace with death in my late teens & can tell you it is a burden off your shoulders. It doesn't take away fear though. Fear of pain is still there & an unwillingness to die is still there. It's just not a scary concept to not exist. It is inevitable, why fear it? Fear is the mind killer.
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
I think the fear of death is much more than just fearing the inevitable physical end. It includes the psychological form or ego too that we try to constantly preserve. It runs our lives even when it isn't an actual life and death situation. Every "hit" the ego takes is a small psychological death that we resist, how much depends on the size of the ego. It can be something mundane like losing an argument or something bigger like going bankrupt. The same mechanism is at play where the ego resists change and trying to keep the status quo intact because it is a small death every time something goes wrong.
(Old Spike)
Totally. I think to live completely ego-free is difficult for social interaction so it's best to not kill it off completely unless you want to be a monk. How much you're aware of what your ego's doing & how much you let it run your life is up to you. Not fearing death & having an opinion on what happens after you die are separate things. For the the latter came much later.
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
"I think to live completely ego-free is difficult for social interaction so it's best to not kill it off completely unless you want to be a monk.How much you're aware of what your ego's doing & how much you let it run your life is up to you"
Yes. I guess it depends on how you define it, but I would say the ego only exists when it goes unchecked. You can be a perfectly functioning human being and be more or less "egoless".