The protestors didn't start out this violent. Now it seems like a bunch of angsty young people an anarchists. This looks like ANTIFA in full swing but with a lot less variation of people and colour in the crowd.
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Dude (Old Spike)
They are still fighting for democracy, noone was killed so far, you know how many ppl died in europe and america for democracy?
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
1 person has been killed. He was a bystander, hit in the head by a brick thrown by protesters.
Another person killed himself, trying to do parkour in a parking lot to avoid arrest.
HK already has democracy. They had local elections just weeks ago & have more elections this September. It's doubtful they will ever have more than they have now since they're showing they can't be trusted. The radicals number in the low thousands, it's not a fight they can win. The HK PLA garrison can easily deal with them without even needing backup.
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Dude (Old Spike)
And when hongkong has to join china again, china will become a democracy to confirm with hongkongs wishes?
-hell no, that is why they are fighting to give a message to the hongkong government, you are not in charge of our future, the ppl think hongkongs government is weak for giving in to deport prisoners to china and so, they want to be on their own, fuck china.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Hong Kong is part of China. Hong Kong has near full autonomy and the same structure as they had under the British but with more democracy. You don't seem to know the basic facts & yet have a strong opinion about it. I find that strange.
It was Carrie Lam who introduced the extradition bill, not at the behest of Beijing. Beijing told her to go ahead if she thinks she can get it done but it was a bad miscalculation of public sentiment.
There will not be independence for Hong Kong. It's unfeasable in a variety of ways. HK is a doorway into China, that's all it has ever been & the reason it has become rich.
There is no problem with HK people sending a message but there, expressing discontent at the local government and even the central government is fine in HK. When they attack property & people they get arrested though, it's pretty simple. Blaming the cops like they do is stupid. HK police are some of the world's finest.
There are reasons to be annoyed at the HK local government but it has nothing to do with their relationship with the central government or some abstract idea like sovereignty or free speech. HK has serious issues to address but the government is too cosy with oligarchs & the business community to push through needed reforms. It's also hamstrung by a "pro-democracy" faction who seem to be loyal to foreign countries & show a lot of animosity towards PRC. This animosity only serves to reduce HK's chance of becoming a vibrant democracy that it could be. Antagonising China is a fool's errand. Not even America can do it with any kind of success, do you seriously think a bunch of spoilt milenials are going to get anywhere by challenging the Chinese central government? LOL. They should be smarter about it & assert their demands in civlised ways. Throwing their toys gets them nowhere.
It doesn't really matter any more. The media is no longer interested in them & America has what they want - a "freedom & democracy" bill that they can weild at China - so they have even less leverage than they ever had.
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Dude (Old Spike)
You are just scared to end up in the baby seat being questioned by a council, and so are the ppl of hongkong, it is strange that you defend china with all your might, but in the end it is just an opinion of one person, Hongkong's opinion are that of many, and they let it be heard, now that they still can.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Sorry, I came back and added a bunch more to that comment. I'll give you a chance to read it...
You're right that it's just my opinion but I have far more knowledge about it I think & have no problem with a democratic HK, nor does Beijing. I can sympathise with some of their concerns like China's OTT censorhip but there are smart & stupid ways to get what you want & I see their radical protest action as only helping China's rivals, namely the US and the ruling anti-PRC party in Tawian. At the same time it undermines their chance of continuing their autonomy past 2047. I'm not afraid of any chairs.
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Dude (Old Spike)
You shouldent be affraid of any chairs you have all the knowledge and stay right in between the lines, that they draw for you
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
You think falling for a "freedom & democracy" psyop makes you rebellious?
Dude, please.
Who is "they"?
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Dude (Old Spike)
Them is most of HK population
rebellious? how do you think THEY would otherwise do it? love? flowers?
When the population is dissatisfied THEY rebel this has been for thousands of years all over the world.
Comments
(Long Spike)
Well that was nice.
The protestors didn't start out this violent. Now it seems like a bunch of angsty young people an anarchists. This looks like ANTIFA in full swing but with a lot less variation of people and colour in the crowd.
(Old Spike)
They are still fighting for democracy, noone was killed so far, you know how many ppl died in europe and america for democracy?
(Old Spike)
1 person has been killed. He was a bystander, hit in the head by a brick thrown by protesters.
Another person killed himself, trying to do parkour in a parking lot to avoid arrest.
HK already has democracy. They had local elections just weeks ago & have more elections this September. It's doubtful they will ever have more than they have now since they're showing they can't be trusted. The radicals number in the low thousands, it's not a fight they can win. The HK PLA garrison can easily deal with them without even needing backup.
(Old Spike)
And when hongkong has to join china again, china will become a democracy to confirm with hongkongs wishes?
-hell no, that is why they are fighting to give a message to the hongkong government, you are not in charge of our future, the ppl think hongkongs government is weak for giving in to deport prisoners to china and so, they want to be on their own, fuck china.
(Old Spike)
Hong Kong is part of China. Hong Kong has near full autonomy and the same structure as they had under the British but with more democracy. You don't seem to know the basic facts & yet have a strong opinion about it. I find that strange.
It was Carrie Lam who introduced the extradition bill, not at the behest of Beijing. Beijing told her to go ahead if she thinks she can get it done but it was a bad miscalculation of public sentiment.
There will not be independence for Hong Kong. It's unfeasable in a variety of ways. HK is a doorway into China, that's all it has ever been & the reason it has become rich.
There is no problem with HK people sending a message but there, expressing discontent at the local government and even the central government is fine in HK. When they attack property & people they get arrested though, it's pretty simple. Blaming the cops like they do is stupid. HK police are some of the world's finest.
There are reasons to be annoyed at the HK local government but it has nothing to do with their relationship with the central government or some abstract idea like sovereignty or free speech. HK has serious issues to address but the government is too cosy with oligarchs & the business community to push through needed reforms. It's also hamstrung by a "pro-democracy" faction who seem to be loyal to foreign countries & show a lot of animosity towards PRC. This animosity only serves to reduce HK's chance of becoming a vibrant democracy that it could be. Antagonising China is a fool's errand. Not even America can do it with any kind of success, do you seriously think a bunch of spoilt milenials are going to get anywhere by challenging the Chinese central government? LOL. They should be smarter about it & assert their demands in civlised ways. Throwing their toys gets them nowhere.
It doesn't really matter any more. The media is no longer interested in them & America has what they want - a "freedom & democracy" bill that they can weild at China - so they have even less leverage than they ever had.
(Old Spike)
You are just scared to end up in the baby seat being questioned by a council, and so are the ppl of hongkong, it is strange that you defend china with all your might, but in the end it is just an opinion of one person, Hongkong's opinion are that of many, and they let it be heard, now that they still can.
(Old Spike)
Sorry, I came back and added a bunch more to that comment. I'll give you a chance to read it...
You're right that it's just my opinion but I have far more knowledge about it I think & have no problem with a democratic HK, nor does Beijing. I can sympathise with some of their concerns like China's OTT censorhip but there are smart & stupid ways to get what you want & I see their radical protest action as only helping China's rivals, namely the US and the ruling anti-PRC party in Tawian. At the same time it undermines their chance of continuing their autonomy past 2047. I'm not afraid of any chairs.
(Old Spike)
You shouldent be affraid of any chairs you have all the knowledge and stay right in between the lines, that they draw for you
(Old Spike)
You think falling for a "freedom & democracy" psyop makes you rebellious?
Dude, please.
Who is "they"?
(Old Spike)
Them is most of HK population
rebellious? how do you think THEY would otherwise do it? love? flowers?
When the population is dissatisfied THEY rebel this has been for thousands of years all over the world.