The Islamophobia Network emanates from just a handful of wealthy Americans down through into the media & beyond. It's basically a scheme to spread disinformation in order to invoke fear of Muslims & Islam.
See how it all fits together by following the below link.
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(Old Spike)
Well a good portion of "islamophobia" is not wrong at all. It is the highest risk "religious threat" after all as far as violence and death toll is concerned.
This only counts if one does not lose sight of the other shitty religions, though.
The jews learned quite well and are getting worse at increasing speed. "Christians" like the catholic church also have their members lulled into happily ignoring child molestation and the Nazi past.
(Old Spike)
It is the highest risk "religious threat" after all as far as violence and death toll is concerned.
How do you quantify that statement?
(Old Spike)
If you don't think fundamentalist islam currently is the worst religious threat and has the the most radical members I would call you quite deluded.
(Old Spike)
Iraq war: 1 million dead, 5 million displaced, described by then president Bush as a holy war.
"God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq" - President GW Bush
Bush would also get biblical quotes in his intel briefings.
I mean, if we're saying the Wahabbi fundamentalist BS, which the majority of Muslims reject, is a representation of Islam/Muslims, then I don't see why we don't call the invasion of Iraq a Christian Crusade.
Back to the point of the post, do you think it's wise to spend millions of dollars on spreading fear of Christians?
(Old Spike)
No, I don't. Neither do I think anti islam propaganda is the way to deal with islamists.
And, like I said before neither is it wrong not to lose sight of the other religions.
Also Bush was the 2nd funniest president the US ever had.
(Old Spike)
Can you name any fundamentalist Islamic groups that have no ties or roots with Western intelligence agencies?
(Old Spike)
Proof is a flawed concept because it requires truth and being.
(Old Spike)
"Can you name any fundamentalist Islamic groups that have no ties or roots with Western intelligence agencies?"
I don't need to. The "roots" lie in the delusions of the followers. The initialisation and a lot of "training" is carried out in mosques all over the world, even and especially in "christian" countries, the failed integration policy of the host countries as well as the unwillingness to integrate are of course part of the problem but cannot be blamed solely.
The best example for this is the enormous amount of Erdogan followers in Germany, many of which actually are well educated people that speak better german than turkish, have good jobs, go to mallorca on holiday and appear to be integated.
The biggest problem is that the muslims are told theat they and their religion are the best but no one outside their circles really takes them seriously and they lack the patience and strategic wit of the jews (creating a financial and political network buying themselves into a position of power and THEN start their open genocide) but the sledge hammer terrorist approach.
The more fundamentalist they are the less they understand why there "values" a not taken seriously and the happier they are to die for their shit.
What angers me about the moderates is that they silently accept the fundamentalists as part of their religion and come up with flawed excuses and arguments like yours in this thread here.
I lost a lot of respect for you. In this post you deteriorated to ninjiz level.
(Old Spike)
If I had to name a "religious threat" that poses the biggest danger to the world right now it would have to be the American Evangelicals. This is easily quantifiable if you consider their support & enabling for the wars of the past 20 years, the fact that they're possibly the most brainwashed & aggressive people on the planet, their leader has a nuclear arsenal and their theology revolves around an apocalypse.
(Old Spike)
What I see is a bunch of fear, ignorance & denial. Cowardice isn't a good virtue.
(Old Spike)
Islam also revolves around an apocalypse. Islam historically has a comparable body count and history of torture as written in the hadith among other historical accounts. It has empires that persist even today that promote a convert or die testament. Women's rights are non existant in some nations dominated by Islam. A religious faith MUST be selected so that it can be heavily taxed. Athiests and apostates considered the worst crimes. Homosexuals are put to death by stoning or flung from rooftops.
It is no better than any other dogma. Argueably worse.
(Old Spike)
Islam also revolves around an apocalypse
No it doesn't but there is a theory in some sects where an apololypse is part of their theology. It's an extremely diverse world of 1.4 billion people living under all sorts of regimes & with all sorts of doctrines.
You've mixed up domestic policy with history & selected the worst forms of oppression into a list. I don't see why any of that stuff is a reason to believe that Muslims or Islam pose a threat to anyone in Western countries.
Like daftcunt's comments, it just looks like vague reasons to justify bigotry. It seems insane to me that Westerners can unironically talk about a threat from Islam considering what's been going on across the Middle East in the past couple of decades.
I reckon you people have been played by the kinds of people in this post but you won't even discuss the substance of the post, you're just here to spout your fear & ignorance. You can lead a horse to water....
(Old Spike)
Pardon me, I meant fundamentalist islam. Which I believe is a religious trojan horse that has overthrown governments and rewritten basic human rights for worse in dozens of nations in history and even today. It has no right to decide what is right and wrong for any nation. Seperation from church and state is paramount.
The jews and the arab nations have been at war since nearly the dawn of recorded history. That fight is none of our business. Whatever beef they have let them sort it out themselves. As they always have.
(Old Spike)
Also why fundamentalist Islam could pose a threat to the western world is because of votes. If they keep immigrating, keep being granted citizenships, over a few generations they could outnumber our native population. Since they never stop having kids.
At a 70% vote a referendum could be established which could rewrite our consstitution and basic rights.
"And the people chose Islam."
As for domestic policies. Fundamentalist muslims chose those cruel domestic policies. If they do it in the east, then why shouldn't I believe that's their agenda for the west.
No not all muslims believe this, just as not every christian wants a crusade.
It's also important to establish the difference between christians and catholics.
Christianity was about following the teachings of Christ which were about mercy, compassion, loving your enemies despite them, and estalishing a personal relationship with the creator.
Catholosism was a political construct by rome which merged christianity with roman god worship. Hence the saints. And it was about permission seeking from religious authorities as opposed to simply being good to your fellow man. The inquisitions and tortures committed in history were conducted by individual insane lords and kings in some nations. As there were many insane kings in history. Even the catholic church condemned these practices as they couldn't extract money from dead men, and these practices endangered the souls of the inquired.
Some of the crusades were conducted by insane lords and popes. While some were also a response to the violent expansion of fundamentalist islam in europe.
Sadly religion has always been an effective tool in rallying an army. Hence why I don't care for it. Strangely though I am not athiest.
I believe in grand design and evolution as it's tool. I believe a creator exists, but not as a man in the sky, but more as an omniscient mind, and we are it's dream that it lives through. If evolution were truely random and not intelligently designed, we would all be a blob of shit without definition. Yet evolution and it's gifts and abilities seem to adapt well and work as we need.
(Old Spike)
Leaving all that personal belief stuff aside I mostly agree with you that religion is often used as a tool to hook masses into supporting a conflict (in particular the Abrahamic religions). But it's a tool that's easily replaced. The 20th Century almost brought us to the brink of death with the Cold War between the Russian Communists (Atheists) and the Americans (Christians). Then Communism fell & the perceived threat became Islam. Lately it's been shifting towards "Western values" as an excuse to carry out regime change in places like Libya & Venezuela. These are "humanitarian wars" where we have to go bomb people to save them from "human rights abusers". It's just as much of a load of shit as bombing them for religious reasons. There is only ever 1 reason for war & that is power.
As for the 'threat' from fundamentalist Islam - your argument makes no sense. The fundamentalists that emmigrate to secular countries are not fundamentalists. Your arguing the same nonsense as the "white genocide" /pol fag who attacked Muslims in Christchurch. It's a bogus argument that's based on fear & ignorance.
I recommend you lookup the Byzantine empire & the history of Mesopotamia from honest sources rather than looking at it through a Western European lens. It takes time but it'll give you a better understanding of history & where we're at today. It doesn't directly relate to this conversation, I just think it's necessary to get a balanced view of history of Western civilisation so you can better detect false narratives.
(Old Spike)
There is absolutely no way to know who is fundamentalist and who is not. Anyone could promote the goodness of their faith while remaining silent about the darkness.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
Islam also states that lying is permissable under the condition that it furthers Islam. No other faith that I know holds lying as a virtue under any context. In fact every religion I know of proclaims that lying only adds baggage to the mind and increases the suffering of the spirit.
If a a faith permits it's followers to lie in order to further it's own influence, how can I ever be expected to trust it.
Other religions are not off their individual hooks either.
Christianity is used to propogate genoicide and hostile take overs in the name of "justice"
Catholosism places unreasonable demands on it's followers that lead to unhealthy manifestations of repressed desires such as mass grifting, guilt perpetuation, diddling and denial.
Science is dogmatic as it is susceptible to arrogance, close mindedness of a different sort. It requires money like other dogmas, sceintists are still human beings with emotions and needs of their own hence they can influenced, coerced, outright bought through research funding. Or even some sceintists will go to great lengths to prove their points so that they may gain admiration, respect, and pussy. OR much more innocently, many brilliant sceintists may only think and problem solve through a few points of view, which may be too limited for a given project, problem, or subject.
Bhuddists have been known to use their enlightenment studies to absolve the mind of guilt so that they may take advantage of new students, women, the poor, or others that know less about the mind.
Taoism I don't know a ton about, but I'm sure there are problems lol. This is humans we are talking about.
Anything that has a following is an ideology. Ideologies are inherently flawed. There are flawless truths that exist, and I believe every religion has SOME truth to it despite it's flaws.
Yet to define and communicate these truths will take much study, open mindedness, and many thousands of hours of inquiery. If these truths can even be explained in WORDS.
I think people Like Muhammed, Christ, Bhudda, Confuscious, Abraham and others have experienced these truths and have these understandings, yet we may never know their true insights as the religions that followed them were recorded and preserved by others who could filter these messages for their own gains.
(Old Spike)
Islam also states that lying is permissable under the condition that it furthers Islam
This is disinformation, a meme popularised by the people in this post.
There is absolutely no way to know who is fundamentalist and who is not
It doesn't matter whether they're fundamentalist or not. If they break the law they go to jail, simple. You can usually tell quite easily what kind of Muslim you're looking at if you understand the different kinds, just by how they dress etc. It's mostly the more moderate ones who go live in Western countries & they don't go there to change the laws, they go to live under our conditions. One of them being religious freedom. There is no threat to that & never will be IMO. We'd have to be incredibly weak to remove that as a core Western value & I don't see us as weak. Do you?
(Old Spike)
Yes. I do.
Quaran 2:225
Quaran 62:2
Quaran 40:28
Quaran 9:3
Quaran 16:106
Sahih Bhukari 84:64-65
Sahih Bhukari 52:269
Sahih Bhukari 49:857
(Old Spike)
Well there's your problem. If you think white people are weak then we'll get Darwinned out of existance no matter what we do. It's just a matter of time, right?
Interesting collection of Quran quotes by the way, I'm not sure what you intended by posting them but here are the translations....
Quaran 2:225
Allah does not impose blame upon you for what is unintentional in your oaths, but He imposes blame upon you for what your hearts have earned. And Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing.
Quaran 62:2
It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error
Quaran 40:28
And a believing man from the family of Pharaoh who concealed his faith said, "Do you kill a man [merely] because he says, 'My Lord is Allah ' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he should be lying, then upon him is [the consequence of] his lie; but if he should be truthful, there will strike you some of what he promises you. Indeed, Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar.
Quaran 9:3
And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
Quaran 16:106
Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah, and for them is a great punishment;
(Old Spike)
Well there's your problem. If you think white people are weak then we'll get Darwinned out of existance no matter what we do. It's just a matter of time, right?
Yes, but that is up to the creator to decide. No human being has that right.
Thankyou for posting the verses. From there the community may use their own discernment for what the verses imply.
(Old Spike)
The jews and the arab nations have been at war since nearly the dawn of recorded history
If your history books don't go back past the 20th Century & are selective about which arab nations they cover then maybe that statement has some validity.... but only if you conflate "the jews" with the racist colonial project of Zionism which is really a product of the Anglo-American empire. See the Balfour Declaration & the Treaty of Versailles where the Zionists were promised a chunk of Palestine after WWI, even though they didn't represent any side that took part in the war.
(Long Spike)
https://www.intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/islam-religion-peace
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