gz thunderfoot is just losing it, he hasn't even looked into the background of this at all. nobody's claiming he invented tunnels, they're saying he's invented the transport system where cars use a guidance system to be able to travel smoothly at high speed along a tunnel. it's not unlike the guided bus systems that've been in use in cities around the world for a couple decades, but those systems use mechanical guidewheels and can't really do more than 120 kph safely. elon's takes it to a much more advanced level.
sad to see someone who used to do such thorough debunking unable to give anything but an argument to incredulity.
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
He's become a prime example of a debunker. Their main motivation comes from telling someone they are wrong.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
I find it interesting that "debunker" has somehow become a negative. The guy is a scientist, not a creationist trying to poke holes into evolution, LOL. If you disagree why not make a specific case of where you think his arguments are wrong.
The tesla fanboys always get all snowflakey offended when someone points out how idiotic some of these ideas are (like the hyperloop).
I think Musk is just desperately trying to get funds for his other projects (like the cars) and this will either die a fairly quick death or become a special fast lane into the city for the rich. If you want a lot of people to commute quickly into the city you create a mix of surface (dedicated lanes) and underground mass transport and limit individual vehicles.
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backdraft (Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
Well, he's just becoming a whiny bitch. Complaining about things like SpaceX being behind schedule, just about anything will do as long as he can complain. Look at the YT comments, theres some good constructive criticism even from his fans.
Don't know if the tunnel itself will ever be viable, I actually don't think it will, but I can't fault Musk for trying. I mean what were the odds of SpaceX making it this far? Even his friends were trying to talk him out of it because it was such a stupidly optimistic pipe dream.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
This is not about spacex, which had better odds from the start than the tunnel or loop "projects".
The worst thing to me is that musk is straight forward lying about the cost but none of the fanboys care. Unless tunnel boring technology is somehow re-invented AND the backlog of cars queueing is somehow miraculously addressed, and anti gravitational measures are invented for the metro cars to reach these speeds, and, and... this is just not gonna happen.
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sato (Old Spike)
what makes you think there will be a backlog? traffic is already restricted by traffic lights and congestion. adding an extra lane for cars to use is going to increase throughput not matter if it's a new raised lane or underground.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
Simple: the way they "designed" it using elevators.
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sato (Old Spike)
the one he gave wasn't even an argument and i pointed that out in my comment.
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Dude (Old Spike)
Lets face it it was a stupid idea, and if Elon would make these he would be stealing taxpayers money
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Nakey (Site Administrator)
this is thunderfoot? what the hell happened to him?
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
There's some science around the 9:00 mark. The rest is mostly whinging.
Interestingly (to me) TF comes to a similar conclusion as I did.... the throughput seems to be a joke....
The average person per vehicle on a motorway is ~1.5, so when you evaluate the cost of the tunnel you have to keep that in mind. When compared to a subway with hundreds of people capacity it seems pretty ridiculous.
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sato (Old Spike)
yeah but it doesn't compete was a subway. what it does is essentially add 4 new lanes for traffic, 1 lane but at 4 times the speed. so you get 4 times the throughput.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Throughput is measured over time....
Cars on the motorway travel around 100m apart when going full speed (~60mph). A rough estimated throughput would be 20 cars per minute hitting an offramp from a single lane of motorway.
To get cars within this tunnel being close enough to each other to get a similar throughput would require a lot more than an elevator that he's presented. The faster they're travelling, the harder the onramp/offramp design becomes.
There may be a sweet spot for it to operate like a high-speed link between major centers but I'm not convinced yet that it's feasable until I see the final designs. A single tunnel hasn't proven the concept IMO.
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daftcunt (Old Spike)
"so you get 4 times the throughput"
Only in an ideal world where you don't evacuate into a a traffic jam or into a lift/elevator construction. This may look nice on paper to some but there still is something like physics, real world engineering and other restrictions.
Comments
(Old Spike)
gz thunderfoot is just losing it, he hasn't even looked into the background of this at all. nobody's claiming he invented tunnels, they're saying he's invented the transport system where cars use a guidance system to be able to travel smoothly at high speed along a tunnel. it's not unlike the guided bus systems that've been in use in cities around the world for a couple decades, but those systems use mechanical guidewheels and can't really do more than 120 kph safely. elon's takes it to a much more advanced level.
sad to see someone who used to do such thorough debunking unable to give anything but an argument to incredulity.
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
He's become a prime example of a debunker. Their main motivation comes from telling someone they are wrong.
(Old Spike)
I find it interesting that "debunker" has somehow become a negative. The guy is a scientist, not a creationist trying to poke holes into evolution, LOL. If you disagree why not make a specific case of where you think his arguments are wrong.
The tesla fanboys always get all snowflakey offended when someone points out how idiotic some of these ideas are (like the hyperloop).
I think Musk is just desperately trying to get funds for his other projects (like the cars) and this will either die a fairly quick death or become a special fast lane into the city for the rich. If you want a lot of people to commute quickly into the city you create a mix of surface (dedicated lanes) and underground mass transport and limit individual vehicles.
(Dixie Normous: Image specialist)
Well, he's just becoming a whiny bitch. Complaining about things like SpaceX being behind schedule, just about anything will do as long as he can complain. Look at the YT comments, theres some good constructive criticism even from his fans.
Don't know if the tunnel itself will ever be viable, I actually don't think it will, but I can't fault Musk for trying. I mean what were the odds of SpaceX making it this far? Even his friends were trying to talk him out of it because it was such a stupidly optimistic pipe dream.
(Old Spike)
This is not about spacex, which had better odds from the start than the tunnel or loop "projects".
The worst thing to me is that musk is straight forward lying about the cost but none of the fanboys care. Unless tunnel boring technology is somehow re-invented AND the backlog of cars queueing is somehow miraculously addressed, and anti gravitational measures are invented for the metro cars to reach these speeds, and, and... this is just not gonna happen.
(Old Spike)
what makes you think there will be a backlog? traffic is already restricted by traffic lights and congestion. adding an extra lane for cars to use is going to increase throughput not matter if it's a new raised lane or underground.
(Old Spike)
Simple: the way they "designed" it using elevators.
(Old Spike)
the one he gave wasn't even an argument and i pointed that out in my comment.
(Old Spike)
Lets face it it was a stupid idea, and if Elon would make these he would be stealing taxpayers money
(Site Administrator)
this is thunderfoot? what the hell happened to him?
(Old Spike)
There's some science around the 9:00 mark. The rest is mostly whinging.
Interestingly (to me) TF comes to a similar conclusion as I did.... the throughput seems to be a joke....
The average person per vehicle on a motorway is ~1.5, so when you evaluate the cost of the tunnel you have to keep that in mind. When compared to a subway with hundreds of people capacity it seems pretty ridiculous.
(Old Spike)
yeah but it doesn't compete was a subway. what it does is essentially add 4 new lanes for traffic, 1 lane but at 4 times the speed. so you get 4 times the throughput.
(Old Spike)
Throughput is measured over time....
Cars on the motorway travel around 100m apart when going full speed (~60mph). A rough estimated throughput would be 20 cars per minute hitting an offramp from a single lane of motorway.
To get cars within this tunnel being close enough to each other to get a similar throughput would require a lot more than an elevator that he's presented. The faster they're travelling, the harder the onramp/offramp design becomes.
There may be a sweet spot for it to operate like a high-speed link between major centers but I'm not convinced yet that it's feasable until I see the final designs. A single tunnel hasn't proven the concept IMO.
(Old Spike)
"so you get 4 times the throughput"
Only in an ideal world where you don't evacuate into a a traffic jam or into a lift/elevator construction. This may look nice on paper to some but there still is something like physics, real world engineering and other restrictions.