China Rising

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danmanjones's picture

This guy is spouting nonsense. He's an Atlantic Council shill.

 

Firstly, Mao's cultural revolution didn't destroy Chinese culture. It shifted it. It destroyed some things, sure but paved the way for others. I hate that it happened btw.

 

Next, the Chinese national treasures are not all in Taiwan. Chiang Kai Shek took ~20% of them with him, along with most of the national treasury (with help from USA). 80% of the national trasures remained in the Chinese mainland & some are on display in the Forbidden City. There are a lot!

 

He knows nothing about telco. He says "the Chinese government would have access to everything" (if countries use Huawei 5G telco gear). This anti-Chinese telco shit is only a few years old & is a State Department meme. Huawei's been installed for years in systems for 3G & 4G & there's been no issue. There's nothing special about 5G.

 

He says "we have to think of Chinese companies as quasi-state actors" as if the large US tech companies are not all completely compromised by the US govt security apparatus, also ignoring the fact that there's no actual proof of CCP interference with Chinese hardware.

 

Rogan plays along with the "they're trying to take over the world" meme. Dude.

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skeptoid's picture

I thought it was pretty much not disputed that China is engaged in a very explicit multi-generational project of world domination. Why not? And why do people act surprised when this is pointed out? We're not surprised about the US doing this but we're surprised and shocked and offended when we state matter-of-factly what China is up to. I don't think they would disagree either, really. I worked at two companies that were foolish enough to do business with China. One was optical metrology and the other Deep Packet Inspection. I witnessed many direct examples of what this gentleman is describing. It's not an accusation - I would say to the VP these aren't capatalists enaged in capatalism but you're engaged with them as though they are. Why are you doing this? Both companies had IP stolen through business with China - the VP of business was stopped in China with our brand new portable optical metrology and laser scanner kit and it was carted away and he was prevented from leaving. A few hours later they came back - everything had been disassembled and examined, and documented, the software copied, etc. and he was told if he wanted to leave China with the equipment he would need to pay a $10,000 courtesy fee. This was in 2007. 

 

China has stolen all kinds of shit, at least as we define it. But they don't define that way and I think they're pretty open about that. I wish them luck, and really encourage NA businesses to cut them out wherever and whenever possible. That won't happen - China is exploiting Western greed and it never runs out. Anyway it would only slow them down - they will win eventually for the reasons noted by Joe's guest. We are lazy, and increasingly stupid, and they are driven, ambitious, unrestricted in many ways and genuninely contemptuous of Westerners and especially the Americans and British.

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danmanjones's picture

I thought it was pretty much not disputed that China is engaged in a very explicit multi-generational project of world domination

Maybe amongst the people you listen to who know nothing about China or its history. It's a dumb concept when you look at the facts though.

 

We're not surprised about the US doing this 

No we're not because it's been doing it since its inception. Manifest Destiny & all that.

 

when we state matter-of-factly what China is up to

There were no facts stated. They're memes based on assumptions.

 

China has stolen all kinds of shit

So has the US. They industrialised based on British state secrets in the cotton industry & stole everything they could blatantly right into the early 20th Century, with government backing. The whole idea of IP is quite new in China but they're adapting pretty quickly to make international commercial cooperation easier.

 

genuninely contemptuous of Westerners and especially the Americans and British

What? They're only pissed at the Japanese for WWII issues & generally want to rise back up to the #1 as a matter of pride. Right now they're being annoyed by Canada, Australia & America but this is a temporary thing. American products are becoming less desirable just because of the Trump effect but are still seen as status symbols. They generally look up to Westerners. They make their skin white, get nose jobs & eye surgery just to look like us.

 

they will win eventually

If it's a zero-sum game, they already have won. It's a silly way to look at it but I know what you mean. Hopefully the next generation won't have this kind of hang-up. China is the big boss of Asia. It doesn't mean the rest of the world has to compete or "win" anything. We have serious issues that hopefully will get addressed when it's undeniable that our system is unhealthy.

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skeptoid's picture

The Chinese hate the west, much more so than the Russians do. There's also a racial component to the hatred, both in terms of the drive for dominance and memories of past wrongs, which makes it more, well, hateful. Their culture disturbs me greatly, and seeing it weild power knowing the aims makes me nervous. I don't think anything can be done about them at this point though - if they don't change internally they will soon rival the US in terms of the potential threat they pose to the entire world only they are organized, driven, and totally onboard with their own very well-indoctrinated and well-practiced sense of manifest destiny. They've been telling themselves the story of it for 75 years now.

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danmanjones's picture

They've been telling themselves the story of it for 75 years now

What story is that?

 

There's also a racial component to the hatred

Maybe the Chinese people you've met just didn't like you?

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skeptoid's picture

None of this is based on "the Chinese people I've met". You don't know the story? The story of once again putting China back in it's proper place through the methodical, multi-generational engineering of every aspect of society through their version of the collectivist utopian doctrine - a story told by the party that dominates and rules their lives. It carries with it an element of racial warfare going back to the Empire and the tragedies of the 20th century. What disturbs me about their particular fusion of the total top-down societal control inherent with communism with industrial drive is how the way they behave collectively and as individuals reminds me of how the 001 AI culture from the Animatrix "Renaissance" behaves and achieves world dominance. They are behaving a lot like a collective AI, sacrificing individual notions of individuals or "the good life" for a singular commitment to working towards the dominance of their state. I don't know that they want to spread their ideology around the world - I doubt it. Just dominate, like so many other nations. Thing is, if they keep going this way they will achieve it or come close to achieving it before the war. Their society is behaving like a society does when it is at war, not at peace, and they have been doing this for some time now. Like during WWII when everyone's lives changed in the name of winning - women worked in factories, there were things you couldn't use or buy, and you were asked to hand in metal and stuff like that. People behaved differently because they believed their survival was at stake. In China, people are behaving this way right now and it seems to be rooted in a darwinian manifest destiny thing.

 

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danmanjones's picture

Their society is behaving like a society does when it is at war, not at peace, and they have been doing this for some time now.

Cool story bro.

 

Maybe read or listen a bit more about their history. This channel is really good: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCim2V_PqtJ6_W2fDESGzJHA/videos

 

You talk as if the CCP has total mind control on Chinese people while at the same time buying into this Atlantic Council wanker's disinfo & couple it with your assumptions about racism. It's a bit sad honestly. I'd be interested to know what you've been tuning into that's led you to these conclusions.

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skeptoid's picture

Oh this is based on having researched China pretty thoroughly - I don't really have much emotion about it other than bafflement that people are just watching this train coming and don't seem to see it. I'm not buying into anything from the Atlantic Council - just being honest about what China is about as it is currently configured. 

 

Yes the CCP has things pretty locked up - psychopaths over here who want to lock things down admire their efficiency and control I'm sure. That social credit system is VERY attractive, but it's easier for them to implement something like that obviously. It's impossible to have total mind control over an entire people (even NK hasn't in its madness completely achieved that) but China does a pretty decent job of it, which is faint praise given their system of governance and how easy it is to violoently force whatever you want on whoever for whatever reason the party deems necessary.

 

http://time.com/5571372/tiananmen-massacre-june-4-1989-china-censorship/

 

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danmanjones's picture

> having researched China pretty thoroughly

> That social credit system

Pick one.

 

We can talk about Tiananmen Square 1989 some other time. It's not what you think. You have some seriously twisted ideas so one thing at a time. It's funny that you'd link to disinfo from a Western propaganda outlet to somehow prove a point about CCP's mind control.

 

That ad's funny & actually goes against the point you're trying to make. Ask yourself why that ad would never play in your country.

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skeptoid's picture

Are you about to say the social credit system is a myth invented by the Atlantic Council or something?

 

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEA_enCA843CA843&ei=L2_YXICSJ4_ytAWQroaYDg&q=China%27s+social+credit+system&oq=China%27s+social+credit+system&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.504079.507717..507923...0.0..0.143.2851.17j11....3..0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i131.mLVn11RkvwA

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System#Implementation_by_Chinese_government

 

And you also have the secret inside scoop on what Tiananmen Square was really all about - what have they not not been telling us danman? Why doesn't the CCP just tell us all what it was really about instead of wiping the "Chinese Internet" of all mention of it in any way shape or form LOLOL. I know a lot about China because I have been fascinated with traditional Chinese culture for many decades. You can find out about the real China in Taiwan. I have for a very long time perceived Communist China as the most dangerous world power in terms of its potential and established direction.

 

Oh and this guy just called every MSM outlet that has him on as a guest "porn" on JRE. I wonder if they'll have him back on.

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danmanjones's picture

Are you about to say the social credit system is a myth invented by the Atlantic Council or something?

Did I say that?

 

I'm not reading those dumb links, I've read the "Social Credit" government paper. As applied to citizens it a credit rating system. It also has a lot of stuff about commercial activity. You need to learn how to look up primary sources. Wikipedia is not a primary source & often links to articles on the web that contain disinfo.

 

Why doesn't the CCP just tell us all what it was really about instead of wiping the "Chinese Internet" of all mention of it

Same reason Julian Assange is in prison, except what Assange released is truthful. Why does Canada persecute "Holocaust deniers"?

 

You can find out about the real China in Taiwan

Cool story bro.

 

I have for a very long time perceived Communist China as the most dangerous world power in terms of its potential and established direction.

Canada is more dangerous to world peace than China. The dumb canucks helped invade Iraq while China was inisting on a political settlement.

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skeptoid's picture

Actually I specifically went to a sympathetic article to see what kind of Horseshit could possibly be spun around what is clearly a terrifying control system that would turn life as I know it into a living hell. So I read this article just to be sure that I wasn't misunderstanding what it is - https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d774e7751444f32457a6333566d54/index.html

 

I would never allow anything like that to take hold in my community. That's the stuff of civil war as far as I'm concerned. 

 

Why does Canada prosecute holocaust deniers?

 

I don't think it's a surprise that on some things you and I have very different notions of what is "twisted"....

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danmanjones's picture

The Holocaust denier question was aimed at you to reflect on the nature of censorship in your country.

 

You already live in a system with a credit rating which rewards & inhibits your behaviour. The differences being who owns the data and what happens when you default on loans or refuse to pay fines.

 

You talk like it's the 1950's and you're in a sci fi movie. So full of conviction & lacking in basic facts. A good chunk of what you've written is based on your perception, which seems rooted in fear. The evidence you've offered is anecdotal, disinfo, a TV ad, a cartoon & a Chinese propaganda article - the latter is the most accurate. Think about this for a sec. We've been discussing a country on planet Earth here. If there's an active conspiracy at play that would see China take over the world, prove it. Show some statements, policies or prior behaviour that demonstrates it.

 

Luckily for you there's an easy answer if you find the Chinese state so intimidating - don't live there. Stay where it's safe ... where your government does great things for humanity like trying to topple the elected government in Venezuela for the sake of oil/mining corporations.

 

If you want an objective take on China's rise, listen to the Deng Xiaoping episodes on this podcast. Here's part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmo_Knj86g8

Cheers

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skeptoid's picture

I do live where it's safe, and to keep it that way I'm vigilant about pointing out when corruption and greed allows their influence to come in to my sphere of existance. Read the sympathetic article - it is MUCH MORE than a novel way to deal with people who don't pay fines. You seem to have a somewhat romantic and I think unrealistic apologetic stance for authoritarian regimes and control systems -  you seem to consistently defend them. If they appeal to you then that's you - it's not me. I fight them here and I see what nightmares are in development elsewhere and sound the alarm as well.

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danmanjones's picture

Just to go back to a previous point you made...

Their society is behaving like a society does when it is at war, not at peace, and they have been doing this for some time now. Like during WWII when everyone's lives changed in the name of winning - women worked in factories...

The Chinese society has just overcome a extreme poverty. Working hard is a matter of survival & setting up the next generation's well-being, not a conspiracy to take over the world. It's also a county built on global trade so destabalising any country is not in their interest, they just lose a customer.

 

AFAIK, these are the people that Chinese people hold racist views about: Japanese, black people, & in some cases Koreans &/or Vietnamese.

These are the countries they don't like: Japan (because Japan hasn't paid reparations or apologized properly for WWII & the history books in Japanese schools completely whitewash their war crimes to the point where Japanese millenials hate China because they think they were victims in WWII .... some of this resentment is encouraged by the CCP for political purposes).

These are the countries they give a fuck about: China

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skeptoid's picture

LOL There's a CCP "re-education" camp with your name on it Danman.

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danmanjones's picture

I'm sure there is, just google the phrase & bingo, the truth is revealed! And it's super scary. Just like searching "china racism" on Youtube to prove Chinese people are coming to get ya. For extra credit, watch Tim Pool read a CNN article on the topic & talk about what "some people are saying". #Reality

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skeptoid's picture

They aren't "coming to get us" - gosh that would be easy to respond to. No, this is something else, and it's not just China and it's unclear to me whether we will push through without some kind of major die off.

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Pantysoaker's picture

India will overtake China in 10 years

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daftcunt's picture

in a TATA? 

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