Arm yourself or die!

stokkebye's picture

The Case for Gun Control Is Dead

I forgot to add a description!

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Bobbob's picture
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I don't want to come off as fascist or anything but a generation ago, a not insignificant number of wayward punks were scared straight after being pulled in to the presinct and hit with a phonebook a couple of times.  Going paperless has had its consequences...just saying. 

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phanto's picture

See, the whole problem the US is having right now is with cops pulling stuff like that and getting away with it. The whole idea of the protests is that cops cannot be given extreme powers, liberties and imunities with the false assumption that they will use them with adequate discretion.

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Bobbob's picture
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A few heads will have to roll and cops will need to be held more  accountable going forward not just for their behaviour, but also for keeping a partner in check if tempers flare. That doesn't mean protestors get to slide into looting behavior with impunity either.  Some have suggested that mandatory body cams for all foot-patrols will help keep people (on both sides) honest. 

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phanto's picture

Maybe I don't understand the point you were originally trying to make but it appears that you've just contradicted it.

 

First you say they should go "paperless" and use dirty and illegal techniques to "scare people straight". Now you say cops should be held more accountable for their behaviour and make sure they follow the rules through body cams and peer surveillance. Don't you see how these two are mutually exclusive?

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Bobbob's picture
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By paperless I was only referring to the fact that it's getting harder to get your hands on a good phonebook these days. I am all for holding people accountable, whether you are police or citizen.

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phanto's picture

So you are contradicting yourself.

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Bobbob's picture
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DON'T murder citizens but DO hit the odd young punk with phonebook? Yeah, I don't understand why we can't have both. 

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phanto's picture

So you want cops to be held accountable for their actions. But with the exception of giving them free reing to brutalize people of their own choosing behind closed curtains as long as they don't murder them. If you don't see the absurdity of it, let me assure you that this idea will not get much public support.

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stokkebye's picture

I was one of those "young punks" who got "ruffed up". It just made me hate the police and fuck with them more. That doesnt work. You know what did work, a cop who caught me breaking windows and instead of beating me up and arresting me, he just asked me what was going on with my life and explained why breaking windows of a business only hurts the business owner, which I did not really think about or cared about until that cop talked to me like a human being. I did stop breaking windows after that and it did help me. If he did "ruff me up" I probably would of broken their windows next! LOL. Yeah I was that kind of "punk".

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Bobbob's picture
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Thanks Phanto and Stokkebye, both. Glad you were set right, S. Just some context, here in Montreal our police force has the reputation of not taking any BS. They were hitting punks with phonebooks well into the 80s and I actually had a cousin who had fallen in with the wrong crowd that recounts the story of being scared straight this way. I see lots of people in these looting videos (I realize they stand apart from the legitimate protestors) who never had it explained to them, as you did, Stokkebye, the very wise lesson that your freedom ends where mine begins. It'll take patience and compassion, and more people taking responsibility for how shitty the situation is along with taking steps to make it better. We can each start with ourselves, I guess.  

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stokkebye's picture

Yeah, it doesnt always work unfortunately. I caught 3 young punks smoking some weed next to an abandoned house in my back alleyway, I explained why I didnt want them there(house is empty and Im afraid of a fire spreading to my house, etc), they reluctantly packed their shit up but wanted to walk through the alleyway to my house, when I told them to piss off to the street in the direction they came from, they bucked up and puffed out their little chests and said "there's 3 of them and one of me, they could take me". LOL. I grabbed two of them by their collars and as I said, "listen little boys..." then the third one punched me in the jaw and took off running. As I was watching him run away I was still holding the other two. I told them they have a very stupid friend because now he just pissed me off while leaving them two to deal with me. I swear they peed in their pants a little as they were yelling "if I hurt them they'd get their brothers". I just picked them up by their collars and threw them out into the street and told them to piss off. So yeah, depends on the person I guess. Probably, same lesson learned though, just took different routes. I grew up with violence, so using violence to "scare me striaght" wouldnt work, I've had a teacher pick me up by the shirt collar and drag me to the principals office and I wanted to hit him back with my baseball bat, I had another one throw a desk at me and I just laughed at him, I had a principal grab me by the shoulders and shake me at his wits end, I just jumped out his window and went home. You know when that does work though, when the people kick the crap out of thieves and burglars themselves. I got stories to tell for days of catching thieves and burglars and never seeing them again in the neighborhood or turning themselves around. Personally, I'd much prefer it that way than the government(police) doing it. The people have a right to protect their property and use violence to do it, I dont think the government should have a monopoly on violence! And power tends to corrupt. Police all too often abuse the innocent and harrass the law abiding citizens, leaving the real criminals alone.

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Bobbob's picture
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I hear ya. But let's still hope that the average cop is better trained in de-escalation and knows when to put a stop on the delivery of even well deserved street justice, vs today's average citizen. 

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