Both side did fucked up shit during the Cold War. "War" wasn't just chucked into the title to make it sound cooler. You won't find much on just how much fucked up shit the KGB got up to because they got better at destroying (or hiding) any and all evidance of their misdeeds.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Yeah both sides did fucked up shit but US was (is) the most aggressive by more than 2X when it comes to foreign interference, overthrowing governments, sponsoring terrorism/rebellion etc.
It's true the US is more open with its archives but you don't need anyone to admit stuff when there's enough intel to link things together. Books have been written about the topic. The count of foreign interference ops during the cold war was about 87 - 35 (US - USSR).
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The Evil Bat (Long Spike)
Like I said. The KGB got better at making shit disappear, like having an agent who knows a little too much about something his or her boss didn't want em to know, can (and did) find themselves getting murdered by their own team. Though this of course was either fobbed over as an accident (car jumping a curb, eating something they're allergic to, killed by some anarchist from a neighbouring country. And so on) and written off just as that. Or just never investigated , or both.
Take a look at some recent events. Like that ex-Russian spy who got poisoned by a type of poison that only Russia has ever manufactured KGB's use.
Or how Vladimir Putins opposition leader got murdered out front of the Kremlin by (get this) a Ukrainian apparently.
Now the CIA haven't been keeping their noses clean either, what with funding Isis and other nasty angry people with agendas that the CIA use for their benefit with guns/ammo and drugs.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
that ex-Russian spy who got poisoned by a type of poison that only Russia has ever manufactured
I think you're talking about the Skripal case & that's just spin. The formula & manufacturing ability is not unique to Russia at all & the whole case is surrounded in weirdness that tends to point to some kind of false flag. [link]
Not trying to defend Putin here but powerful Russians take out other powerful Russians quite a lot. I dunno who was behind that hit outside the Kremlin but my gut tells me Putin wouldn't choose that location. I'd not be surprised if a Putin-protected dude was behind it, that's why there wasn't a prosecution. That happens a bit I think.
My point wasn't about assassination of political rivals or ex-spooks though, it was about actual meddling of foreign governments. Assassination of a president with a faction all ready to take power (often with death-squad backup) is a classic foreign meddling play. They're not always violent & don't always work (rwt the 87-35 tally).
Some of the most revealing stuff I've come across has been from CIA whistleblowers who describe what US/Russia/China actually do behind the scenes. From what I've read the US is the most ruthless.
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The Evil Bat (Long Spike)
In that I agree and you ain't wrong. CIA stir shit to give themselves a budget and an excuse to exist. Even in their 'allied' countries.
From what I remember, from past interviews with ex-KGB agents is that the KGB where playing the long game, and had actually implemented some plans back in the Cold War days that are still going on today. (And who knows, maybe yet to be implemented)
As for my feeling about Putin. I don't like him for some of the shit his let happen and done (like that civilian airliner shot down over Ukraine, smooth move Vlady). But I can respect him for sticking to his word and not taking shit.
But still. Get the fuck outa Ukraine , Russia. You ain't foolin no-one with the land grab.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
I think Crimea is Russian. 90% of the population there speak Russian & they overwhelmingly voted to be annexed, like 95% or something. The regime change op there by the US state dept/CIA overthrew a democratically elected leader. When you do that all bets are off & don't cry when you lose.
As for Donbass, that one's stickier. Again, the majority there speak Russian & would like to belong to Russia but Russia's not looking to annex it. Ukraine is a fucking mess. Since the fall of USSR it's been run by corrupt oligarchs who pilfer the money bigtime. It's not really a legit state... ultimately I'm fairly neutral on the civil war in the East but hope the violence ends ASAP.
It looks like Zelinsky is a fairly straight shooter for a Ukrainian president & he's not being a total dick towards Russia. He has to balance the politics between Washington & Russia because US has decided that's the new front in the struggle for world domination against those 'evil' Russians. It's not Trump either... they fucking impeached him for getting in the way of the foreign policy - one of the few things he's suposed to be in charge of...
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The Evil Bat (Long Spike)
Hold up a sec man. I ain't no trumpy trumpeter, nor am I for that creepy Hillary. I would've voted for the 3rd guy.
But seriously, Bill burr summed it up beautifuly. "You lost to Trump! He would say six different things a week that would sink any other presidential campaign". Or something like that.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
You mistunderstood, those impeachment docs are just to show how crazy it is that the foreign policy of the country is being dictated by the Dems in bed with the deepstate & media apparatus. They literally charge the president - the person who by law is the ultimate authority on US foreign policy - with undermining US foreign policy!
....also that it's not Trump stirring up trouble between the US & Russia. It's pretty clear that he's been hamstrung with every attempt he's made to thaw the tensions. The media bombardment is surreal, like a lot of other things these days.
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InsertCoin (Short Spike)
haha US is so backwards compared to us Australians! We got it going on! Ain't no one gonna stop us!!!! Come one Australia, let's do it!
Comments
(Long Spike)
Both side did fucked up shit during the Cold War. "War" wasn't just chucked into the title to make it sound cooler. You won't find much on just how much fucked up shit the KGB got up to because they got better at destroying (or hiding) any and all evidance of their misdeeds.
(Old Spike)
Yeah both sides did fucked up shit but US was (is) the most aggressive by more than 2X when it comes to foreign interference, overthrowing governments, sponsoring terrorism/rebellion etc.
It's true the US is more open with its archives but you don't need anyone to admit stuff when there's enough intel to link things together. Books have been written about the topic. The count of foreign interference ops during the cold war was about 87 - 35 (US - USSR).
(Long Spike)
Like I said. The KGB got better at making shit disappear, like having an agent who knows a little too much about something his or her boss didn't want em to know, can (and did) find themselves getting murdered by their own team. Though this of course was either fobbed over as an accident (car jumping a curb, eating something they're allergic to, killed by some anarchist from a neighbouring country. And so on) and written off just as that. Or just never investigated , or both.
Take a look at some recent events. Like that ex-Russian spy who got poisoned by a type of poison that only Russia has ever manufactured KGB's use.
Or how Vladimir Putins opposition leader got murdered out front of the Kremlin by (get this) a Ukrainian apparently.
Now the CIA haven't been keeping their noses clean either, what with funding Isis and other nasty angry people with agendas that the CIA use for their benefit with guns/ammo and drugs.
(Old Spike)
that ex-Russian spy who got poisoned by a type of poison that only Russia has ever manufactured
I think you're talking about the Skripal case & that's just spin. The formula & manufacturing ability is not unique to Russia at all & the whole case is surrounded in weirdness that tends to point to some kind of false flag. [link]
Not trying to defend Putin here but powerful Russians take out other powerful Russians quite a lot. I dunno who was behind that hit outside the Kremlin but my gut tells me Putin wouldn't choose that location. I'd not be surprised if a Putin-protected dude was behind it, that's why there wasn't a prosecution. That happens a bit I think.
My point wasn't about assassination of political rivals or ex-spooks though, it was about actual meddling of foreign governments. Assassination of a president with a faction all ready to take power (often with death-squad backup) is a classic foreign meddling play. They're not always violent & don't always work (rwt the 87-35 tally).
Some of the most revealing stuff I've come across has been from CIA whistleblowers who describe what US/Russia/China actually do behind the scenes. From what I've read the US is the most ruthless.
(Long Spike)
In that I agree and you ain't wrong. CIA stir shit to give themselves a budget and an excuse to exist. Even in their 'allied' countries.
From what I remember, from past interviews with ex-KGB agents is that the KGB where playing the long game, and had actually implemented some plans back in the Cold War days that are still going on today. (And who knows, maybe yet to be implemented)
As for my feeling about Putin. I don't like him for some of the shit his let happen and done (like that civilian airliner shot down over Ukraine, smooth move Vlady). But I can respect him for sticking to his word and not taking shit.
But still. Get the fuck outa Ukraine , Russia. You ain't foolin no-one with the land grab.
(Old Spike)
I think Crimea is Russian. 90% of the population there speak Russian & they overwhelmingly voted to be annexed, like 95% or something. The regime change op there by the US state dept/CIA overthrew a democratically elected leader. When you do that all bets are off & don't cry when you lose.
As for Donbass, that one's stickier. Again, the majority there speak Russian & would like to belong to Russia but Russia's not looking to annex it. Ukraine is a fucking mess. Since the fall of USSR it's been run by corrupt oligarchs who pilfer the money bigtime. It's not really a legit state... ultimately I'm fairly neutral on the civil war in the East but hope the violence ends ASAP.
It looks like Zelinsky is a fairly straight shooter for a Ukrainian president & he's not being a total dick towards Russia. He has to balance the politics between Washington & Russia because US has decided that's the new front in the struggle for world domination against those 'evil' Russians. It's not Trump either... they fucking impeached him for getting in the way of the foreign policy - one of the few things he's suposed to be in charge of...
(Long Spike)
Hold up a sec man. I ain't no trumpy trumpeter, nor am I for that creepy Hillary. I would've voted for the 3rd guy.
But seriously, Bill burr summed it up beautifuly. "You lost to Trump! He would say six different things a week that would sink any other presidential campaign". Or something like that.
(Old Spike)
You mistunderstood, those impeachment docs are just to show how crazy it is that the foreign policy of the country is being dictated by the Dems in bed with the deepstate & media apparatus. They literally charge the president - the person who by law is the ultimate authority on US foreign policy - with undermining US foreign policy!
....also that it's not Trump stirring up trouble between the US & Russia. It's pretty clear that he's been hamstrung with every attempt he's made to thaw the tensions. The media bombardment is surreal, like a lot of other things these days.
(Short Spike)
haha US is so backwards compared to us Australians! We got it going on! Ain't no one gonna stop us!!!! Come one Australia, let's do it!