Disclaimer - I don't endorse everything he says but it's worth a watch if you want to know what's going on with these anti-Muslim people like "Tommy Robinson", Pamelar Geller, Robert Spencer etc. Give it a listen, comment & rate or whatever.
The guy speaking is Nick Griffin of the British Nationalist Party (BNP) - a far-right political party in the UK. "Tommy Robinson" was a member from 2004 - 2005 before starting the EDL in 2009. Talk is from about 2013.
http://blog.balder.org/media/pdf/Nick-Griffin-What-Lies-Behind-The-English-Defence-League.pdf
(3 votes)
Comments
(Old Spike)
Why are you posting a video from the BNP?
(Old Spike)
Robinson left and denounced the EDL in 2013.
(Old Spike)
On 8 October 2013, Quilliam held a press conference with Robinson and Kevin Carroll to announce that Robinson and Carroll had left the EDL. Robinson said that he had been considering leaving for a long time because of concerns over the "dangers of far-right extremism".[43][44] Robinson said that it was still his aim to "counter Islamist ideology [...] not with violence but with democratic ideas". Ten other senior figures left the EDL with Robinson and Carroll, and Tim Ablitt became the EDL's new leader.[43][45]
(Old Spike)
Did you watch the video?
He's doing the same thing under a different brand, with the same boss that Nick Griffin pointed out in the video - Paul Weston. It's the UK chapter of a German activist group called Pegida.
According to Griffin....Sheldon Adelson/Irving Moskowitz, pay Frank Gaffney, who employs Pam Geller who employs Chris Knowles who gives the orders to Stephen Lennon, who is employed by Paul Weston to pass their orders on to the grass-roots [Pegida]
(Old Spike)
Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West
I believe you are, intentionally or not, confusing anti-Muslim with anti-Islam.
I have an axe to grinde with Islam; NOT ALL MUSLIMS practice Islam in it's true form. For those that do, you bet your ass I have an "axe to grind". Tell me I deserve to have my head removed from my body because I'm an Atheist and yea, I have an axe to grind. Tell me my fellow citizens deserve to be executed for being gay and yea, I have an axe to grind. Groom and rape hundreds of white non-Muslim girls because they are white and non-Muslim and I think I have an axe to grind.
Islam is a mental cancer and ought to be fought at every turn. This is evidence by the current fall of Western Europe as they continue to allow Islam to infect their countries. Only the Eastern European nations are standing against it because they're history is one of defending against the Muslim hoards.
(Old Spike)
I believe you are, intentionally or not, confusing anti-Muslim with anti-Islam.
That's rich coming from someone who denounces criticism of Israel as Jew-hate.
Tell me....and yea, I have an axe to grind
When were you ever told any of that?
(Old Spike)
If by "criticism" you mean "lies" then yes, those lies are made up by people who hate Jews.
In recent times, extreme prejudice persists, both socially and legally, in much of the Islamic world against people who engage in homosexual acts. In Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Somalia (in some southern regions), Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen, homosexual activity carries the death penalty.
When were you ever told any of that?
Where are you hiding that you haven't heard it?
Iran’s regime executed a gay adolescent in July - the first confirmed execution of someone convicted as a juvenile in the Islamic Republic in 2016 - Amnesty International reported this week.
Hassan Afshar, 19, was hanged in Arak Prison in Iran's Markazi Province on July 18, after he was convicted of "forced male-to-male anal intercourse" (‘lavat-e be onf’) in early 2015, the NGO said in a statement Tuesday.
(Old Spike)
Yeah it sucks that Iran does that. I don't see how that relates to Western Europe though.
(Old Spike)
Pamela Geller is fucking awesome.
(Old Spike)
What you may not understand about JP and myself may have to do with the core nature of our belief system vs. your belief system. I don't know precisely what your belief system is, but I was alarmed by this statement by you above:
"Oh, and he's working with a group he once denounced called Quilliam - a group of fakes who claim to be trying to work with Muslims to convince them to abandon their beliefs. As if any Muslim takes them seriously."
Do you or do you not believe that non-rapey and non-head-cutoffy Muslims have an obligation to turn inwards towards the rapists, racketeers and would-be murderers in their communities and either expose them or correct them of their obviously (right?) misunderstanding and misapplication of Islamic ideology? What do you mean by "abandon their beliefs"?
JP and I are Christians - we believe that we are commanded not to be perfect but to be better, always. That means when we grow we want to grow better, not worse. When we see people who were once aligned with hate denounce their former lives and former hateful allies, join forces with those they called enemies based on blood, and call for change through honest dialogue and democratic processes, we approve. It's built into our code to acknowledge every person's ability to repent and take a different path - it's commanded of us but it also makes a lot of fucking logical sense, even from a pure point of self-interest.
I used to hate homosexuals - aggressively. This came about because of influences within the Christian fundamentalist community. Of all the traps I hurdled the one I failed to navigate was the issue of gays, gay marriage, etc. When I realized my profound error, it was embarrassing and I felt extremely ashamed to have denigrated God's kingdom in this manner, to have misrepresented Christ, etc. I changed, and now I try to make up for any contribution I might have made to condemning homosexuals as a group when I was younger. I take Tommy at his word - I've seen nothing to make me doubt he truly did change due to positive growth. So that's where I'm coming from in terms of your accusations that he's the secret leader of a clandestine anti-Muslim hate organization.
(Old Spike)
Bah, I edited that comment but you already read it.
What do you mean by "abandon their beliefs"?
That is the goal of Quilliam - it claims too be an outreach program to counter Islamic extremism through dialogue. The trouble is that the people within it are not genuine at all.
"Tommy Robinson" believes the entire religion is the problem & it stems from the Koran.
Maajid Niwaz is an annoying lawyer who just tries to win arguments with callers on his radio show.
Here he is coaching "Tommy" through the PC talking points:
https://youtu.be/0y-Lgz94phE?t=78
(you can hear what Tommy is thinking, he's just being told how to present it on air)
I think this video sums him up well. He's a Zionist Muslim Rent Boy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2ZLGSaaFvc&t=4s
He says Israel has acted more responsible than Iran & Syria in the Syria crisis & gets super defensive at the very mention of Israel & frames it as an Iran/Saudi proxy war.
What informed Muslim or imam is going to take anything this guy says seriously?
Here he is advocating for UK to bomb Syria:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzVDxCLzkU4
Here he is advocating for the overthrow of Qadaffi, calling the revolution a "natural uprising" and condemning Qadaffi for the violence:
https://youtu.be/y99VXGiiJr0?t=61
His words: "I think Qadaffi is about to debark upon deliberately sparking a civil war in Libya"
On Joe Rogan's show he was slamming Assad for killing "Sunnis" without acknowledging the obvious fact that the "moderate rebels" were armed & trained by GCC states, Turkey, & US while Israel has been the al Qaedia's air force & artillery. And the majority of the Muslims restoring order to the country are Shia but he hates who he's supposed to hate (Iran, Assad etc) so he's sending out really fucked up messages.
There's a deeper strategy at play here Skeptoid. There are probably about 2 Spikers who get it but in time I think you'll get it too if you just question everything, especially anything in the major alt media.
That stunt "Tommy" pulled yesterday worked brilliantly. I gotta say, it was super effective. He was warned explicitly about not doing that very thing - he intended to get arrested IMO... I don't know that he intended to get 13 months though. Last time he did time I think he had to stay in solitary the whole time just to be safe. I find him annoying though so I have no sympathy.
(Old Spike)
Tommy looked genuinely surprised when they came to take him away. So the guy must be a really good actor as well.
I don't have as much investment as you do in the Isreal vs. eveyrone around them issue. I have a problem with your skeptical comments about the holocaust - mostly because I believe that's making the mistake of attacking at the wrong level of analysis. The holocaust happened - whether some smoke stacks were yadda yadda means nothing: Even if not a single Jew was gassed what was done to those people would still rank as high as what Pol Pot did. I see the Isreali thing from a phenomenological Christian perspective - most who abuse children were abused as children, but most children who are abused do not grow up to abuse children. In the case of Isreal, the abused people who chose to express their trauma by abusing another group seem to have held sway in the US and Isreal with regard to the Palestinian people. It's decidedly un-Christian from my perspective, especially the ideology of Zionism.
(Old Spike)
The gas chamber thing was a bit of a litmus test. I'm not sure what happened in Belzek & Treblinka. Nobody's allowed to investigate. I'm sure there were no homocidal gas chammbers at Auschwitz because I've seen the manager admit it in an interview.
I find it interesting to see how people respond to this kind of thing, similar to how people respond to criticism of Israel - that's always a good one because it tells me whether someone is informed &/or racist. IMO if you hate any group of people for just being part of a particular culture it's on you. ISIS is an exception. They're mercenaries.
I tend to go off on coutries I'm annoyed with like Trump etc breaking the JCPOA & idc if people think I'm not objective in my comments or posts in those cases.
I think you're right about the Jewish psychology. They've had a historically rough time. Sucks that they're taking it out on the one group who's consistently welcomed them & coexisted for the most part.
You should watch soem stuff about the Sumer civilisation. It's really interesting. Christian legends & a lot of Western civilisation stems from that place. Zecharia Sitchin's work is worth a look. Beware, some people are obsessed with Nibiru/12th planet. I think just the Sumerian civilisation & mythology is fascinating - there are like 500k tablets found so far so heaps of info.
(Old Spike)
The assumption I make is that when people focus so much time on trying to debunk the holocaust it's an indication that they view that event as the major justification for the formation of the new State of Isreal and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians and they think that by proving it didn't happen it injures the Zionist cause. If that's not where you're coming from - if you're just testing Spike's free speech limits - so be it. But like I said I don't care whether they were or weren't gassed - what was done to them was horrific and industrial in scale. The trauma birthed or at least injected hi-octane fuel into Zionism. The Christian fundies that back it are retarded beyond description.
(Old Spike)
Yeah it was bad. You know who else suffered? The Russians. The Chinese. The Germans. The Indians. Do you even know how many Canadians died? No deaths have any special meaning to me other than my family who perished in that war. It was a tragedy all round.
I believe you're mistaken when you link the Holocaust to the founding of Israel though. It was already a done deal (Zionism started in 1880's, Jewish immigration to Palestine in 1890's & Balfour Declaration was signed in ~1917) & Holocaust propaganda didn't really get into full swing until the 1970's. Before then it was mostly allied propaganda to justify the madness & make us feel better.
Maybe some people have been motivated about it like you say but I doubt many have. It's interesting in itself especially if you're a curious person & the facts are so sketchy. What you're saying is just a talking point & a pillar of Zionism - a way to silence critics as much as anything. It's not like you need to go to those lengths to find stuff about Israel to poke at though. You can just start with the injustice of displacing 700k Arabs in 1948 & go from there.
Yeah I agree this Christo fundy thing is pretty scary. People are just starting to notice. I don't think this ends well, we have to have faith in the reality TV start in cheif. Damn.
(Old Spike)
Isreal would not be what it is today without the holocaust - it might exist but it would be something different. I think it's better to criticize Tommy in this manner:
(Old Spike)
Danmanjones , so you are doubting that the Holocaust happened... So surprised to hear that from you. Now I'll be taking everything you say and post even more seriously */sarcasm*
Shouldn't you be on the floor bent over kissing the ground worshipping your illiterate pedophile war Lord goat herder instead of annoying kuffars like us with your endless propaganda dribble?