The Social Credit System

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Maxpower's picture
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danmanjones's picture

This should be required viewing before using Instagram.

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stokkebye's picture

Ummm, dont they already have this in China???

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danmanjones's picture

No, that's a fakenews meme, largely thanks to this episode of Black Mirror.

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stokkebye's picture

China plans to rank all its citizens based on their "social credit" by 2020. People can be rewarded or punished according to their scores. Like private financial creditscores, a person's social scores can move up and down according to their behavior.

The "social credit system," first announced in 2014, aims to reinforce the idea that "keeping trust is glorious and breaking trust is disgraceful," according to a government document.

The program is due to be fully operational nationwide by 2020, but is being piloted for millions of people across the country already. The scheme will be mandatory.

At the moment the system is piecemeal — some are run by city councils, others are scored by private tech platforms which hold personal data.

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4

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danmanjones's picture

It's a financial credit rating system, just like we have, except it'll have state involvement instead of being run by private companies.

 

A key difference is that if you refuse to pay a court fine you'll get on a 'blacklist' & won't be able to travel on planes or intercity trains. You'll can still drive & take the subway. It's not a form of punishment, it's a way to make it harder for fraudsters to move around cities ripping people off.

 

It has nothing to do with "social credit" as depicted in this Black Mirror episode.

 

That business insider article has conflated a whole bunch of things with the financial credit rating system being rolled out next year as if it's one system. It's fakenews.

 

I'm unsure about the authenticity of that wordpress "government document" but even if it checks out, if you read it, it's about financial credit, not social. I don't know why they present it as a "social" measure, could be just a CCP thing. They tend to speak in that way a bit. Still pretending to be communists, it's wierd. Or maybe they called it that just to troll Alex Jones.

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stokkebye's picture

*/

My former attorney married a Chinese-American, he works for the San Francisco public defenders office as of now and she works for a huge international company, they plan to move to China this summer as he took a job as a professor in a Chinese university. He even said he has to watch what he talks about with me as the "social credit system" is in play. I would believe him more then any lamestream media source. But that's just my opinion, take it for what it's worth, dont really care all that much :)

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danmanjones's picture

I've talked to a bunch some regular Chinese people about this, ones who've been living in China until recently. They've never heard about a "social credit" score - they laugh & don't believe it.

 

A Chinese guy helped me look at that "government document" to make sure the translation was legit etc. I read the first few pages & could only see things related to financial credit. He filled me in about what he knows about the blacklist & how it stops you from catching a train/plane.

 

Based on my research the university enrollment thing seems to checkout too, where it's enforced, if kids refuse to do their 1 month conscription they may get blackballed from university. This is likely more for the high-end universities & for kids that don't have rich parents. You can decide whether jailtime, a felony charge &/or a fine is better or worse than being refused entrance into uni. The US did the former 3 during the Vietnam war.

 

There's an article here that debunks some of this "social credit" meme. (if you hit a paywall open in incognito window).

 

Edit: Reading through some of that government document, the commercial aspects seem promising. IP protection, labour laws, regulation against price gauging etc. A lot of it is stuff that will help bring China in line with a regular first-world nation.

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stokkebye's picture

Yeah, I hope its not real. China will be the leading superpower for the next century and if they can get their shit together they can have some positive effects on the world, or negative. You can do alot when you a billion and a half people at the ready.

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danmanjones's picture

Yeah 1.5 billion with a full state control & 5,000 years of history to draw from. That's a lot to work with.

 

There's a danger that a future president will come along & fuck it up. Jiang Zemin was a shitbag but Xi has purged his influence.

 

They tend to be unassertive in their foreign policy. We should be heading back to a multipolar world. Taiwan is the only potential trouble on the horizen. The goal is to reunify by 2030 but the Taiwanese youth aren't so keen.

 

I'm not bothered much by their domestic policy, I just don't like disinfo. I think they have things the right way around though - the government should be above the corporations, not the other way around.

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stokkebye's picture

*/

The USA almost didnt have a president and it led to alot of infighting because of it, they thought a president would just be another king of sorts, I agree, we shouldnt even have a president and the government should be over the corporations. My understanding is that when the USA was formed, there was fear of the government obtaining too much power and stifling the economy and over taxes the people, so it was set up that the government can facilitate commerce and ensure economic growth and thats about it. That is NOT what we have today, the government has gotten way too powerful and gets in the way of economic growth. You cant have your cake and eat it too, Either stick to the original plan or start a new one. We have a perverse corporate controlled government with some capitalistic mechanisms, the free market capitalism the founders envisioned and what the constitution allows for is not what we have. Take for instance how we allowed a corporation to be equal to a fucking person. WTF! A law becoming popular among states now is called Marsy's victim law, it's protections for victims of crimes, the fucking corporations are insisting they have the same rights under this victim law as a real human being. An entity that has no soul, purely driven by profits now has the same rights as a human being, wtf!

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danmanjones's picture

When the US was founded it was a farming colony with no industry.

Free-market capitalism is great for getting a country like that going & helping it industrialise but left unchecked you end up with what America has today - lobbyists writing laws for politicians who look to maximise profits in private industry.

 

China's a good case study for an evolving regime. 100 ys ago they had a US-backed nationalist government which was heavily corrupt & the people got so pissed off they started supporting Marxism (give or take an invasion + civil war). Mao's regime was full state-control & was a disaster in some ways but the critical goals were met - it built up a workforce by doubling life expectency & tripping literacy. Then Deng Xiaoping, a super-talented administrator opened things up from the 1980s onwards by stimulating free market enterprise.

 
FFWD to today & they've found a balance of something like 20% state controlled enterprises, 10% foreign-owned and 70% private domestic ownership.... those numbers may be off a bit but you get the idea. The portions of ownership are strategic. Private capital stimulates the economy while the state-owned banks & industry gives strategic control to the state.

 

These guys have been working on long term plan and have goals in mind for 2050 they set out decades ago & they're working through stages of development ot get there. They want their 'proper socialism' or something. Hopefully old people will be looked after.

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stokkebye's picture

Yeah just took 15 million people to die in order to get there, lol.

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