Karate was developed in the Ryukyuan Islands as a combination of Chinese martial arts. [1]
In the 1970s & 80s Karate movies popularized karate as a traditional Japanese martial art but Japan had only adopted it 50 years prior.
The Ryukyu Kingdom (1429-1879) was a tributary state of Imperial China & inherited a lot of Chinese culture, particularly that of Fujian province.
Okinawans referred to their local style as Tōde (唐手, China hand) or sometimes as Okinawa-te (沖縄手, Okinawa hand). [2]
Tōde was further developed during Japanese invasion & subsequent weapons ban in 1609.
Japan finally occupied the Ryukyuan Kingdom in the late 19th Century & annexed it in 1879.
Tōde was then imported with Ryukyuan migrants to the Japanese archipelago in the early 20th century.
Tōde (Okinawa-te or Karate-jutsu) was systematically taught in Japan after 1926 & prior to 1935, was still written as "唐手" (Chinese hand).
This is what became known as Karate. [3]
Judo (founded 1882) is a popular Japanese traditional martial art & Olympic sport. Ronda Rousey was a judo competitor in the Olympics.
Jujitsu (founded 1532) can also be attributed to Japan. JJ was adapted by Brazilians to create BJJ, a fundamental skill MMA fighters.
In the fight scene above they're fighting on a lei tai, a kind of MMA combat ring dating back over 2,000 years to the Qin Dynasty.
Comments
(Old Spike)
Karate is Japanese. The things you are describing - Chinese martial arts and Okinawa-style "kempo" are not karate. Those two combined, then later with the influence of regional Japanese martial arts (mainly Satsuma style, after they invaded Ryukyu), developed into karate. Karate evolved from the influences of multiple other martial arts, none of which were karate.
(Old Spike)
Doesn't seem very "Japanese" to me. But then, just about everything "Japanese" is an offshoot or straight copy of something from Chinese civilisation. Judo & jujitsu are rare exceptions.
(Long Spike)
"Karate originated in the island of Okinawa with the influence of Chinese Gong Fu which, in turn had been influenced by ancient Indian martial arts"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karate_in_India
(Old Spike)
lolwtf
dammit I wanted to edit my comment & say "traditional Japanese" instead of "Japanese". Modern Japan is heavily influenced by Western civilisation.
(Short Spike)
And the Chinese "borrowed' it from Buddhist monks from India, Pakistan, Nepal regions. Appropriation is the state of life, it's how we learn. Wrestling is the origin of all these arts, which makes sense since all children do it in some form, but is it a martial art?
(Old Spike)
It has no association with Buddhist monks from India, Pakistan, or Nepal.
Karate (open hand) is a renaming of a specific form that was called tode (China hand). It arrived in Japan in the early 20th century & they renamed it. It traces to the Ryukyuan Islands.
If you wanna argue that Chinese kung fu was influenced by those other places I'd beg to differ, there wasn't any interaction with those places where Chinese martial art forms that influenced karate were developed. But that's a separate conversation.
I'd also say wrestling (grappling) is not really a martial art. It's a general way of fighting.
(Long Spike)
Bodhidharma
(Long Spike)
you shouldnt have been able to edit your comment bud
heres the comment before the edit
"Karate has no association with Buddhist monks from India, Pakistan, or Nepal. Wrestling is not the origin of a striking form either, they're separate disciplines.
Karate (open hand) is a renaming of a specific form that was called tode (China hand).
Asking if "wrestling" is a martial art is like asking if "striking" is a a martial art.... no I'd say not really, they're not developed into an art, they just describe a general action."
you know if you ask someone whos done karate to do a uraken, they'll give you the same technique across the board. thats what makes it a martial arts. its the same for everyone who practices the art that makes it a martial arts.
(Old Spike)
seems legit. lol
(Old Spike)
Looks like he did spend some time in Shaolin & taught physical exercises & meditation to maintain the health of existing Shaolin martial artists (according to some myths & legends)...
(Long Spike)
you even find his name in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_martial_arts
it's like, i knew what i was talking about
(Old Spike)
It's possible that Bodhidharma helped some existing Chinese martial artists by training them in Buddhism (not martial arts).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_martial_arts#Southern_and_Northern_dynasties_(420%E2%80%93589_AD).
(Long Spike)
they named a cane after him
whats harder to believe, that buddist from india went to china and brought martial arts with him or that china still hasn't accepted the 1989 Tiananmen Square incident
(Old Spike)
The 2nd thing is harder to believe because it's patantly false.
[they've made several docos about it] & [it's on their search engine]
The first is a mere legend/myth that was first written about 1000 years after it allegedly happened.
Naming a technique practiced by martial artists closely associated with Buddhism (in modern times) after a Buddhist patriarch is not surprising & doesn't prove what you're implying. Martial arts existed in Shaolin well before Buddhism did & there doesn't seem to be any record of the 2 being closely associated before the 17th Century.
Chinese martial artists meditating =/= Chinese kung fu came from India.
Chinese kung fu predates Buddhism by about 2,000 years.
(Long Spike)
Buddhism is over 2500 years old and kung fu dates to the 2 or 3 century bc, Buddhism is older
(Old Spike)
Martial arts were first codified in one of their 5 major Chinese texts (Spring and Autumn Annals) in the 5th Century BC, Buddhism didn't exist then & didn't appear in China until 5 centuries later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_martial_arts#Early_history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Buddhism#History
Spring and Autumn Annals was written during the 'Waring States Period'. What do you think they used to fight these wars?
Chinese martial arts date back way before the 6th Century BC, they'd had millenia of wars & dynasties by that time. Things just get sketchy when you go too much further & there's no need to in this case.
(Long Spike)
"Chinese kung fu predates Buddhism by about 2,000 years. "
i'm done for the day, someone else will carry the torch
(Old Spike)
Yes it does.
It was codified in the 5th Century BC in what's now considered Chinese canon but existed for a long time before that.
This sword is older than Buddhism
https://mymodernmet.com/sword-of-goujian/
(Long Spike)
you started with "Chinese kung fu" and switched to "Chinese martial arts"
chinese martial arts are going to be as old as the chinese have been around. chinese kung fu started in the 2 or 3 century bc. like, say apples have been around for 2 thousand years but fruits have been around for 4 thousand years. have apples been around for 4 thousand years? apples are a specific fruit as are chinese kung fu to chinese martial arts.
(Old Spike)
The Japanese guy looks a bit like Matsumoto Hitoshi
(Short Spike)
You can find all kinds of sources for what you believe and with all due respect - I know you won't change your mind in any case. (from our previous discussions) And what industrialized country has not been influenced by the USA? Even NZ - from NY Martial Arts Academy:
Despite the rich history of martial arts in China, modern day martial arts originated in 527 A.D in Indian. Indian monk Ta Mo taught the monks of the Shaolin Temple the 18 Buddhist Fists, which turned into the Five Animal Styles of Shaolin.