The cops have failed to efficiently prosecute the mostly Pakistani & Bangladeshi gangs, that's true. Why even bring religion into the discussion though unless there's an agenda?
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
That's because it's Muslims doing it. That's this guy's point - how could have missed that?
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
what has it got to do with religion?
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
What has what got to do with religion? The activity appears to be a notable component of the culture amongst these men who identify as Muslim. The problem appears to be localized within that community. None of this is confusing at all - I don't care what the EXCUSE is for these men raping young girls and turning them into drug addicts. The issue wasn't investigated, and continues to be downplayed, because of political concerns. Maybe it's not political maybe authorities or politicians or whatever are just terrified that they'll be blown up or shot if they expose it - that's a legitimate fear.
How is the man speaking above a "Zionist shill"? LOL I'd recommend less analysis drawn from an Islamic propaganda page in the future. Are you saying that there isn't an issue with Muslim grooming rape/drug gangs?
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
How is the man speaking above a "Zionist shill"?
Read the link
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Muslim grooming rape/drug gangs
Maybe you should apply for a job @ Quilliam. I hear the money's good.
Maybe it's not political maybe authorities or politicians or whatever are just terrified that they'll be blown up or shot if they expose it - that's a legitimate fear.
The failure to address the abuse was attributed to a combination of factors revolving around race, class and gender—contemptuous and sexist attitudes toward the mostly working-class victims; fear that the perpetrators' ethnicity would trigger allegations of racism and damage community relations; the Labour council's reluctance to challenge a Labour-voting ethnic minority; lack of a child-centred focus; a desire to protect the town's reputation; and lack of training and resources.
Maybe if we stopped thinking about people's feelings of tension and discomfort and start punishing rapists for raping, then people will understand that rape is not tolerated.
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
Good point - is that the issue here? Is this an issue of "I'm in a different country or culture, and I'm contained within a community that puts my religious laws above the secular laws of the society I live in. Non-Muslim women are fair game - they are not protected as per [insert insane ideology here]."
Is that what's going on here - is this simply a case of a fringe or extreme subset of the "Muslim community" not recognizing British laws against rape? If so, the solution seems pretty obvious - aggressively prosecute very publicly and apply maximum sentences, as tends to be the norm with rape.
Danman - I've tried several times to get an unambiguous position from you. Is it your position that these Muslim grooming/rape gangs do not exist? That this is a myth?
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
aggressively prosecute very publicly
You can't publically prosecute people in UK. It leads to mistrial - this is the reason "Tommy Robinson" is in jail if you ignore the hype.
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
How are you supposed to establish deterrence then if all of the details of trials are secret? This is what's needed here:
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
You can view the media coverage after the trial is over. Eg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAvRj6BQ0AM
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Fuckin A. There's no excuse for suppressing prosecution of pedo rings or rape gangs. The UK government should not be protected either.
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theblackswordsman (Old Spike)
Maybe if we stopped thinking about people's feelings of tension and discomfort and start punishing rapists for raping, then people will understand that rape is not tolerated.
Looks like someone here doesn't believe rape should be punished. Which one of you cowards is it?
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
So then you agree it was political. I read the link - that entire site is an extremely biased anti-Zionist-focused propgaganda site. I don't like Zionism, but I also don't like blanket apologist websites that try to put a spin on heinous shit when the people who run it should be using it to focus inwards in their own communities on the heinous shit.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
blanket apologist websites
What on Earth are you talking about Skeptoid? Apologist for what?
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
Apologists for heinousness - that website should be supporting the message delivered in the video above. I looked but could find nothing about the Muslim community cleaning up these scumbags. Why? What does it matter WHO is saying it anyway? What he said is the approach that should be taken - why is it not being taken?
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Apologists for heinousness
Care to show me where that site does this?
that website should be supporting the message...
Really?
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
What is your objection to prominant Muslims turning inwards and denouncing this activity?
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
They already do. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslims-unite-to-condemn-extreme-depravity-of-child-grooming-in-first-uk-wide-single-sermon-8678412.htm
I think your assertion that "Non-Muslim women are fair game" may have some truth to it, based on this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCG-iHvRwP0
You seem convinced that there is some kind of religious motivation causing these guys to do this but you haven't offered any evidence. Yes there's a correlation but it's not a simple issue. I think if you want a balanced perspective you should also read this:https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/03/nazir-afzal-there-is-no-religious-basis-for-the-abuse-in-rotherham
There's also a history of UK authorities covering up pedo rings on behalf of powerful government officials so that further muddies the waters when it comes to the failed investigations.
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napalm4sd (Long Spike)
'Muslim' is brought up because there is this idea that announcing your dislike of Islam makes you a "racist." This idea has essentially become canon. So much so, that people like you are unable to fathom why religion is brought up at all, when the presented argument claims racism enabled violence that was religiously motivated.
To put it another way:
You're a racist for hating Islam!
::this idea becomes canon::
-Practicioners of Islam commit a crime in western society, that their religion says is ok to do because infidels and shit.
-Authorities arrest said criminals. Others begin to characterize said persons.
-Argument: The characterization that led to the realization that said criminals were practicioners of a faith that endorses said behavior is rejected (at the level of the state) because adding to the list of motivators makes you a racist.
-Null argument becuase racist.
My own thoughts: This perpetuates a radical Islamist mindset because it opts out of maintaining pressure on the religion to reform. Thus, it is unhealthy to the civilized world as a whole. Pressure must always be maintained to reform shitty religions. ISLAM included.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Practicioners of Islam commit a crime in western society, that their religion says is ok to do because infidels and shit.
All Muslims are ISIS. Got it.
I don't agree that we need to pressure anything to reform unless it is causing a problem.
This "Tommy Robinson" has really opened the floodgates of ignorance & bigotry. That's why he gets paid the big bucks I guess.
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theblackswordsman (Old Spike)
I always wondered if a nation made it a felony to practice religion of any kind if the muslims would leave peacefully or not.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
You'd wanna stock up the supermarkets with beer & bacon before announcing that law or it could get real nasty.
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ninjzz3.0 (Short Spike)
I always wondered if a nation made it a felony to practice religion of any kind if the muslims would leave peacefully or not
Oh Like these guys got it.....
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theblackswordsman (Old Spike)
Nothing worse than atheism to Islam.
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ninjzz3.0 (Short Spike)
'Muslim' is brought up because there is this idea that announcing your dislike of Islam makes you a "racist." This idea has essentially become canon. ohh booooo hooooooo
and Yet Sam Harris Dawkins are making millions off book sales to IDIOTS ...
You can bash Islam as long as you want problem is Uncle Tom Maajid Nawaz Tommy Robinson and YOU take it to the all Jews are evil want to take over the world Dont trust Jews because They are jews pre WW2 level stuff. They in Majjid case make money off the "Reform Muslim" ban wagon Tommy case hang out with White Power idiots too long or your case Follow your religion of "Religious Atheistm" all evil in the world is religion and only religion nothing do with world politics wars or anything else.
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
It's very simple Ninjizz - you're so busy worrying about the reputation of Islam you're mocking the legitimate concern people have about vulnerable non-Muslim women being destroyed and abused because it's sanctioned by a sector of the community that has real purchase and power. How often do you go looking to expose this activity? Do you know anyone who speaks out against it? All I want is to be educated about what the Muslim community does to prevent and expose this activity. That's it.
Comments
(Old Spike)
This Zionist Muslim rent boy in business with "Tommy Robinson"
http://www.loonwatch.com/2017/03/06/maajid-nawaz-and-quilliam-the-money-trail-behind-the-propaganda/
The cops have failed to efficiently prosecute the mostly Pakistani & Bangladeshi gangs, that's true. Why even bring religion into the discussion though unless there's an agenda?
(Old Spike)
That's because it's Muslims doing it. That's this guy's point - how could have missed that?
(Old Spike)
what has it got to do with religion?
(Old Spike)
What has what got to do with religion? The activity appears to be a notable component of the culture amongst these men who identify as Muslim. The problem appears to be localized within that community. None of this is confusing at all - I don't care what the EXCUSE is for these men raping young girls and turning them into drug addicts. The issue wasn't investigated, and continues to be downplayed, because of political concerns. Maybe it's not political maybe authorities or politicians or whatever are just terrified that they'll be blown up or shot if they expose it - that's a legitimate fear.
How is the man speaking above a "Zionist shill"? LOL I'd recommend less analysis drawn from an Islamic propaganda page in the future. Are you saying that there isn't an issue with Muslim grooming rape/drug gangs?
(Old Spike)
How is the man speaking above a "Zionist shill"?
Read the link
(Old Spike)
Muslim grooming rape/drug gangs
Maybe you should apply for a job @ Quilliam. I hear the money's good.
Maybe it's not political maybe authorities or politicians or whatever are just terrified that they'll be blown up or shot if they expose it - that's a legitimate fear.
- [wikipedia]
(Old Spike)
Maybe if we stopped thinking about people's feelings of tension and discomfort and start punishing rapists for raping, then people will understand that rape is not tolerated.
(Old Spike)
Good point - is that the issue here? Is this an issue of "I'm in a different country or culture, and I'm contained within a community that puts my religious laws above the secular laws of the society I live in. Non-Muslim women are fair game - they are not protected as per [insert insane ideology here]."
Is that what's going on here - is this simply a case of a fringe or extreme subset of the "Muslim community" not recognizing British laws against rape? If so, the solution seems pretty obvious - aggressively prosecute very publicly and apply maximum sentences, as tends to be the norm with rape.
Danman - I've tried several times to get an unambiguous position from you. Is it your position that these Muslim grooming/rape gangs do not exist? That this is a myth?
(Old Spike)
aggressively prosecute very publicly
You can't publically prosecute people in UK. It leads to mistrial - this is the reason "Tommy Robinson" is in jail if you ignore the hype.
(Old Spike)
How are you supposed to establish deterrence then if all of the details of trials are secret? This is what's needed here:
(Old Spike)
You can view the media coverage after the trial is over. Eg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAvRj6BQ0AM
(Old Spike)
Fuckin A. There's no excuse for suppressing prosecution of pedo rings or rape gangs. The UK government should not be protected either.
(Old Spike)
Maybe if we stopped thinking about people's feelings of tension and discomfort and start punishing rapists for raping, then people will understand that rape is not tolerated.
Looks like someone here doesn't believe rape should be punished. Which one of you cowards is it?
(Old Spike)
So then you agree it was political. I read the link - that entire site is an extremely biased anti-Zionist-focused propgaganda site. I don't like Zionism, but I also don't like blanket apologist websites that try to put a spin on heinous shit when the people who run it should be using it to focus inwards in their own communities on the heinous shit.
(Old Spike)
blanket apologist websites
What on Earth are you talking about Skeptoid? Apologist for what?
(Old Spike)
Apologists for heinousness - that website should be supporting the message delivered in the video above. I looked but could find nothing about the Muslim community cleaning up these scumbags. Why? What does it matter WHO is saying it anyway? What he said is the approach that should be taken - why is it not being taken?
(Old Spike)
Apologists for heinousness
Care to show me where that site does this?
that website should be supporting the message...
Really?
(Old Spike)
What is your objection to prominant Muslims turning inwards and denouncing this activity?
(Old Spike)
They already do. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslims-unite-to-condemn-extreme-depravity-of-child-grooming-in-first-uk-wide-single-sermon-8678412.htm
I think your assertion that "Non-Muslim women are fair game" may have some truth to it, based on this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCG-iHvRwP0
You seem convinced that there is some kind of religious motivation causing these guys to do this but you haven't offered any evidence. Yes there's a correlation but it's not a simple issue. I think if you want a balanced perspective you should also read this:https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/03/nazir-afzal-there-is-no-religious-basis-for-the-abuse-in-rotherham
There's also a history of UK authorities covering up pedo rings on behalf of powerful government officials so that further muddies the waters when it comes to the failed investigations.
(Long Spike)
'Muslim' is brought up because there is this idea that announcing your dislike of Islam makes you a "racist." This idea has essentially become canon. So much so, that people like you are unable to fathom why religion is brought up at all, when the presented argument claims racism enabled violence that was religiously motivated.
To put it another way:
You're a racist for hating Islam!
::this idea becomes canon::
-Practicioners of Islam commit a crime in western society, that their religion says is ok to do because infidels and shit.
-Authorities arrest said criminals. Others begin to characterize said persons.
-Argument: The characterization that led to the realization that said criminals were practicioners of a faith that endorses said behavior is rejected (at the level of the state) because adding to the list of motivators makes you a racist.
-Null argument becuase racist.
My own thoughts: This perpetuates a radical Islamist mindset because it opts out of maintaining pressure on the religion to reform. Thus, it is unhealthy to the civilized world as a whole. Pressure must always be maintained to reform shitty religions. ISLAM included.
(Old Spike)
Practicioners of Islam commit a crime in western society, that their religion says is ok to do because infidels and shit.
All Muslims are ISIS. Got it.
I don't agree that we need to pressure anything to reform unless it is causing a problem.
This "Tommy Robinson" has really opened the floodgates of ignorance & bigotry. That's why he gets paid the big bucks I guess.
(Old Spike)
I always wondered if a nation made it a felony to practice religion of any kind if the muslims would leave peacefully or not.
(Old Spike)
You'd wanna stock up the supermarkets with beer & bacon before announcing that law or it could get real nasty.
(Short Spike)
I always wondered if a nation made it a felony to practice religion of any kind if the muslims would leave peacefully or not
Oh Like these guys got it.....
(Old Spike)
Nothing worse than atheism to Islam.
(Short Spike)
(Old Spike)
It's very simple Ninjizz - you're so busy worrying about the reputation of Islam you're mocking the legitimate concern people have about vulnerable non-Muslim women being destroyed and abused because it's sanctioned by a sector of the community that has real purchase and power. How often do you go looking to expose this activity? Do you know anyone who speaks out against it? All I want is to be educated about what the Muslim community does to prevent and expose this activity. That's it.
(Short Spike)