Ukraine: Exposing Russia's Bucha Disinformation

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danman's picture
whm2whm3

so far there's a bunch of evidence pointing at the Ukrainian side killing those people & none pointing at Russia doing it. AFAIK no neutral experts have opened an investigation & the more time goes by the harder it gets. The Ukraine govt is now in control of the area but they don't seem keen to investigate in good faith. They seem extremely enthusiastic to have reporters there though.

 

Could be like the 2014 Odessa massacre which they still haven't gotten to the bottom of, only this time they have a scapegoat.

 

I've seen what the Russian MoD has said & none of it is disinformation. They're noting the fact that they left the town days before the people were killed, based on the footage of the bodies they don't look like they've been dead very long, apparently. The mayor gave a video address from there the day after they left. Then 2-3 days later these bodies show up, which in itself doesn't look good for the Ukrainian side. There's other stuff too, none of it's disinfo as far as I can tell.

 

video is restricted, what's the TLDR?

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theblackswordsman's picture
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Some of the bodies were mannequines, some crises actors that actually move lol. Blood when it dries turns brown not red. Yellow bodies likely pulled from the morgue. Yellow means have begun decomposition. Not these fresh kills as claimed. And with all of this slaughter in the streets and all the cell phones carried by citizens no cell footage? All official?

 

Just a black and white war here. Clear Good guys and clear bad guys. So much incentive for Russia to perpetuate war crimes in a country they plan to occupy, No progaganda incentive for Azov to do this to their own.

 

Open and shut it seems.

 

Dumbwash for the masses!

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danman's picture
whm2whm3

I don't think it's staged in that way but either the people were trying to run away or their bodies were moved onto the road. They look like they were killed by SBU or similar for being collaborators since one of them has a white armband.

 

There's another group of people who were distributing aid & this is the kind of thing "collaborators" do.

 

Sorry, graphic (enlarge if you want)

 

I don't claim to know what happened & keep an open mind, just saying what I've seen & speculating. Proper investigation is necessary & Russia's at least partially responsible for leaving these people there & in danger, if they were killed as mentioned above. Whether they were offered to leave & decided they were safe enough to stay is hard to say.

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theblackswordsman's picture
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I consolidated a lot of incidents in the above post.

 

I'm sure some bad things happened on both sides, but this war perception is so comicly one sided perpetuated by news networks that lie about everything else.

 

There are all kinds of techniques to manipulate how things look. 

 

They did crap like this during covid, during the 2017 gas attacks in Syria and a bunch of other times.

 

No one is going to know much truth about whats going on for awhile, but I definitely know it ain't what CNN and BBC are trying to tell me. If people start with that, they'll be one step closer to the truth, rather than trying to make Putin takes Trumps place rent free in their heads.

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Timmy Tosser's picture
redd2

This is standard Russian army MO. In 1940, the NKVD (Soviet secret police) began the execution of 22,000 Polish officers and intelligentsia to prevent a potential future Polish military. The shootings started in the evening and ended at dawn throughout April and May.

Image

 

 

If you want to know the story behind these men's dead bodies, read the interview with someone who stayed with them in a bomb shelter...until Russian soldiers came and shot each of them who they discovered served in 2014-2015, or even had a tattoo of Ukraine's trident. https://vot-tak.tv/novosti/03-04-2022-rasstrely-zhitelej-buchi… Or go ahead and keep believing your red herring logical fallacies. I don't give AFImage

 

 

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theblackswordsman's picture
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Tell me how you know for sure you are not being lied to?

 

A witness? And why were they allowed to live and spread such harmful information against Russias operation?

 

Makes no military sense, and neither does the wholesale slaughter of innocents. Even if that's your intent in the most wicked of circumstances, you at least wait until the nation is subdued and you can black it out so the info can't spread to damage you.

 

Now what DOES make military sense is to kill a few of your own to smear your enemies, drumming up more support for your cause, escalating the situation in hopes that big brother nations jump in to bail you out, to demoralize the citizens of the opposing country, and make your own citizens fight harder.

 

If you study war strategy with more seriousness than a documentary this stuff is very basic.

 

Is that what's happening? Don't know. But what I outlined is useful however ruthless, and the main story everyone is telling you is not useful from Russian military or politcal viewpoint.

 

To lay everything at the altar of irrational decisions and madness makes no sense either. Even the most vicious dictators had uses for their methods that served them beyond just wasting a bunch of civvies.

 

I would also add, that I hear everyone's concerns that Putin is trying to revive the USSR, possibly even forming an alliance with China to bring forth a global communist megapower. That hasn't slipped my mind.

 

But, We won't know until it actually happens. And stopping this fight won't stop a behemoth like that anyway. We'll have more information after we see what they do with ukraine, and if neccessary we can take it back later.

 

What is potentially at stake, is there is ALOT of filth inside that nation, and I don't just mean Nazi's either, there are globalist money laundering operations, the largest trafficking networks of children and drugs in the world there, servers are (rumored) to have been recovered from under the RAD zone in chyrnoble, priceless records and documents, bio weapons etc. 

 

IF they are there, I want them found and exposed. This could be a really big deal.

 

Could be why Rothschild and Sorros are freaking out about this. That's all assuming both sides of the conflict arn't working together anyway.

 

One thing is for sure, These guys didn't just see the light like Scrooge and become altruistic all of a sudden, they couldn't care less about Ukraine. But, sensitive information about their decades of illicit international operations. Oh yes, they care very much about that, they'll sacrifice as many citizens as it takes to protect their little anglo empires.

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Timmy Tosser's picture
redd2

Well, for one multiple independent satellite images show the bodies laying in the street in the Bucha area BEFORE the Ukrainian forces had retaken the towns. 

 

I can't refute the rest of your points, nor can I support them. None of us really know those details, so we are left to speculate and put the pieces together to make a picture that fits our own world view. 

 

One thing that is black and white for me, whoever the russian dogs are  who did these horrible acts to these families, which includes very young children, are evil incarnate and deserve no mercy [Sorry Graphic]:

 

Image

 

 

Image

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danman's picture
whm2whm3

"multiple independent satellite images"

from an American firm with a CEO who's worked for the US government & US Navy, analysed by an American media company, the NYSlimes who's no stranger to atrocity propaganda.

 

"None of us really know those details"

agreed.

 

Since we're posting gore, the Ukraine military has been committing such atrocities this whole time & going back to 2014. Here's just one example (I'm not a fan of gore but it's relevant here):

 

there's countless reports of all manner of atrocities committed by Ukrainian fascists, especially in Mariupol & in Donbass over the years. Over 800 cases with supporting evidence that Ukraine authorities won't investigate, also the Odessa Massacre of 2014, a crime still gone unpunished.

 

and of course the infamous torture video posted just a week ago, which Ukraine authorities initially tried to lie about:

https://twitter.com/sch3nx/status/1511082107128487940

 

and the negotiator who was executed by SBU for being a traitor about 2 weeks into the conflict for treason in the streets of Kyiv outside.

 

this isn't whataboutism, just showing there's a pattern of Ukrainian fascists & authorities summarily executing people.

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backdraft's picture
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Possibly staged by Russians for propaganda purposes.   

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danman's picture
whm2whm3
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backdraft's picture
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Hope they get punished for killing POW. 

That being said, I get why they do it. People kinda get angry when their country is invaded. Emotions run high when they are fighting for their country.

100 years ago same thing happened here in Finland.  Russian and pro-russian POWs executed by the hundreds.      

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theblackswordsman's picture
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If you're in command, it falls on you to rise above strong emotions and focus on the mission.

 

A General that succumbs to strong emotional responses is not just a severe moral liability, but is very easily played and defeated by an opposing General that understands him.

 

Rules are grey in war, this is true. But, if you throw out all moral structure then you are defeating the very cause you are fighting for.

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backdraft's picture
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Some have it in them, some don't. 

It's easy to judge behind the keyboard when you're not the one defending your country and seeing innocent civilians die and having the whole country blown to hell.    

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theblackswordsman's picture
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You seem to be under the impression that my only activism is digital. That is incorrect.

 

No my country is not being bombed at the moment. Yet, I am no stranger to fighting for my life on more than one occasion.

 

"Some have it in them, some don't." If you don't, you have no business leading men that trust you with their lives.

 

Some of those Azov boys that were torturing Russian POW's have been captured. I have a feeling they are still around and very sorry for the choices they made that day.  A good lesson for every soldier to learn.

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backdraft's picture
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"If you don't, you have no business leading men that trust you with their lives."

 

Russia should have taken into account the bad leadership of Ukrainian soldiers before they invaded.

All of this could have been avoided. 

 

 

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theblackswordsman's picture
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"Russia should have taken into account the bad leadership of Ukrainian soldiers before they invaded."

 

I think they were more concerned with being enveloped. A legitimate concern.

 

I agree, NATO could have avoided all of this.

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backdraft's picture
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Most likely there will be more NATO expansion because of their actions.

Finland and Sweden are looking at joining. Rest of Europe upping their military spending.  

 

 

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theblackswordsman's picture
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"Most likely there will be more NATO expansion" - Highly Likely.

 

"because of their actions." -Not neccesarily, but the perfect excuse. Was probably going to happen anyway, consider Nato expansion agreements having been relentlessly steamrolled by NATO since the 90's year after year.

 

If you are Russia and diplomacy is not stopping your envelopment, break through and create space is the only option.

 

Moscow and alot of oil production is too close to Europe to allow an invasion, it was by incompetent decision making alone that Nazi Germany didn't capitalize on this in WWII. The world military powers would be sure to make better decisions this time around in such a scenario.

 

If your opponent is going to make a certain action anyway. A damned if you do damned if you don't scenario, it always better to force the strategy on your terms.

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backdraft's picture
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So this was a pre-emptive strike because NATO was going to invade Russia?  NATO was going to start WWIII? 

 

""because of their actions." -Not neccesarily, but the perfect excuse. Was probably going to happen anyway, consider Nato expansion agreements having been relentlessly steamrolled by NATO since the 90's year after year."

 

Finland never wanted to join NATO. Staying neutral would be in the interest of both countries. Russia doesn't want NATO on its borders and Finland wants to keep good relations with Russia. (Having dealt with enough Russian aggression in the past)

NATO support was around16% before this shit show. Now it's over 60%.  People are naturally afraid of what the paranoid ex-KGB agent is planning next. Will he want more buffer zones? A repeat of Stalin?  

We know now that he isn't afraid of using force. 

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theblackswordsman's picture
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"So this was a pre-emptive strike because NATO was going to invade Russia?  NATO was going to start WWIII? "

 

Possibly. NATO borders were supposed to be fixed in 91 I believe.

 

They kept adopting one new country at a time year after year until far past that agreement.

 

NATO wouldn't JUST invade. They would set everything up *Which they were doing and Putin called out monthes ago* Then stage a false flag or series of them to create an opportunity for invasion.

 

Once your siege is set it's immensely difficult to break through. Pre emptive strike before everything is set up is the military answer. Now they are no longer beseiged. Simple.

 

Like I said, the answer is de escalation. These sanctions Russia will recover from no matter how many are levied. They are building a powerful parallel economic system already.

 

However, the rest of the world will not recover from the sanctions they levied if they keep pushing. China and Turkey are highly likely to Join Russias Alliance. Turkey controls the gates to Europe, and tons of African and Middle Eastern immigrants are slipping in with Ukrainian Refugees.

 

If you are only looking at the conflict, you are missing the movie.

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backdraft's picture
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So Ukraine is key to all of this? Now NATO can't invade? 

I mean they weren't even going to let Ukraine join NATO. The place is too unstable and corrupt. 

 

Doesn't add up.  NATO attacking Russia means WWIII and thats lights out for everyone.

Having a nuclear winter serves nobody.

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theblackswordsman's picture
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WWIII does not AUTOMATICLY mean nuclear weapons.

 

Even one nuclear strike does not equal nuclear firestorm across the planet.

 

Nukes are mostly just a threat. Since they affect everyone.

 

The KEY is not Ukraine in of itself. The key is global economics, Global confidence in the dollar as the world reserve, global stability which affects mass immigration, and global supply chain.

 

Between Russia and Ukraine something cllose to 50% global wheat  production, about 70% of fertilizer ingredients, Much of Europes natural gas and Oil.

 

Putin was funding European climate change activism in Europe for years. Why? To force European energy dependence.

 

U.S. and Canada Refuse to Open Key Stone Pipeline for fast safe cheap oil transport, They are also severely limiting domestic oil speculation. Why? Muh Climate change. Why Really? To manufacture energy crises and make populations desperate to accept elite rule.

 

It's all a global game and we are the losers. All of us.

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daftcunt's picture
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Again, I'll get the popcorn..... 

 

Bit of fact checking: https://www.bbc.com/news/60981238

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danman's picture
whm2whm3

Russian embassy in Canada shouldn't have tweeted "faked dead bodies" without being certain.

UK shouldn't have blocked Russia's request to table their info at UNSC last night either. They could have got more than just a tweet to call Russia's credibility into question.

 

Any forensic & witness testimonies have to be handled by impartial experts. This trial by media stuff is silly.

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daftcunt's picture
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says the oe who constantly posts from questionable media. you are hillarious, danjizz

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danman's picture
whm2whm3

all media is questionable

 

you just linked to BBC World - the propaganda arm of the UK government

same government who blocked Russia's attempt to discuss the Bucha topic at last nights UNSC session. Their stated reason for the refusal is that it doesn't warrant discussion.

 

and yet here you are discussing it & linking their propaganda as if it's your bible.

 

hey Siri, what's the NPC word for irony?

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daftcunt's picture
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lol, the BBC is only described as a "propaganda channel" by the extreme left or right of the political spectrum. The sane part of the population considers them to be quite unbiased.

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danman's picture
whm2whm3

BBC World is the international propaganda arm of the UK government

 

are you denying this?

 

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daftcunt's picture
Discord userfront page

 

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danman's picture
whm2whm3

can't answer a simple question.

curious.

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daftcunt's picture
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I answered the question even before you asked it danjizz.

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danman's picture
whm2whm3

I asked you a simple & direct question, can you answer it...

 

BBC World is the international propaganda arm of the UK government

are you denying this?

 

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daftcunt's picture
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lol, the BBC is only described as a "propaganda channel" by the extreme left or right of the political spectrum. The sane part of the population considers them to be quite unbiased.

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danman's picture
whm2whm3

deflection & appeal to popularity, bad faith BS rather than answering the question.

 

fail.

 

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daftcunt's picture
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says the tard that doesn't answer straight, simple questions. lol. only one failure here, danjizz

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danman's picture
whm2whm3

ad hom

 

fail.

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danman's picture
whm2whm3
Raining Blood's picture

that guy was in a pro-russia political party, was so nuts that they kicked him out. you've also gone with a pro-russian seperatists who told ukrainians to surrender.  whats next? you going to go with the ousted former ukrainian president who had to flee to russia?

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Timmy Tosser's picture
redd2

Hopefully when this is all over there will be accounability for all sides for war crimes committed.

 

I don't know about you lot, but I have far less empathy toward an russian invader being executed, versus a small girl being raped and murdered. 

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theblackswordsman's picture
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No doubt, and you should. 

 

I would like to add, that who REALLY comitted the crimes makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

 

The most fair answer we can all agree on is we don't know who.

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