You missed that in the video? They talked about it at length. They even referred to it as "the problem".
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
I heard them talking on censorship. I find it hard to listen to these guys though. What's the executive summary of 'the problem'?
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Nakey (Site Administrator)
my understanding is this, the issue is two fold concurrently involving the new payment tear charges and cencorship.
the new payment charges (and i can't find the figures atm so i may be off feel free to correct me) charge something like a higher percentage for small ammounts. in a nut shell you get a lot less for one off and those dollar a month types.
as for censorship they've gone full youtube demonitization style for things they don't like which is subjectivly up to them. i found a video on it here:
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
The large, monolithic corporations that facilitate online monetary exchange and serve as proxies for cash are beginning to exert censorship control over creators and those who fund them by targeting the platforms (Patreon, SubscribeStar) that use their services with ultimatums, forcing them to ban certain creators (all over the political spectrum) or lose the ability to use their service as an an online payment vector. There are various theories as to why banks and tech are colluding to do this - I'd go with the idea that this is the organic inevitable evolution of the kind of systems we're putting in place and the nature of those who exert the most leverage over those systems and how we use them. They are happy to use the amplified outrage of organized identitarians to seize this kind of power and control, and they will use it on everyone if it can be firmly established. It won't be long, I think, before YouTube crashes and burns under the weight of the rift between it's corporate culture and majority of those who use the platform. They don't even release their earnings last I checked - they are folded into Google and no one knows what the money generated by YouTube is used for, last I checked.
I have no idea if this Rubin/Peterson idea is going to pan out.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
I've seen that conspiracy theory around that the credit card companies are putting pressure on Patreon to act in a certain way but it seems like horse shit.
The financial model you mentioned was announced but then rolled back due to a backlash [source - see 3rd paragraph]
What if Patreon just want to enforce certain levels of decency within their platform?
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
She literally tells Matt in the call transcript Makey posted above that the reason for these bans and a non-uniform, individually subjective evaluation of each Patreon creator based on their entire public profile is due mainly to pressure from the payment companies. LOL all of the data that can answer your questions is literally at your fingertips, in this post/thread.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
That video is super annoying. Somehow Sargon managed to find a voice that's more annoying than his own. Kudos I guess. The transcript is here
It looks like their concern is brand reputation & it extends to all Creators as well as the payment processors they use. It's a bit weird what she said about the payment processors but it could be that there's a partnership in the works or just the fact that Patreon is a corporation & Visa/Mastercard etc can bury them in the court system if any issues came up so Patreon is being proactive & playing it safe. It's really all speculation at this point.
Their actions seem to be maintaining a level of 'social decency', not going after a particulay political faction. They have a compaint mechanism which will always be at the detrement of polarizing characters like Sargon. Advocates of free speech who target the far-left need to keep their noses extra clean. It's not a conspiracy, it's just reality.
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Nakey (Site Administrator)
welp, it's going to fuck patreon in the end. if they couldn't or wouldn't find a work around the rats will leave the ship and they are in droves. testament to the power of the free world market, rejoice in the fact that these days there are viable alternatives.
youtube it's self is the big ticket item here. they are demonitizing at a decent rate but as for outright banning a bunch of power creators? yeah that's an interesting situation.
oh btw how was you new year man?
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
NYE was boring but satisfying. Just went out for dinner. Was delishus. Yours?
I think you may have a point about Youtube. It's copied Twitch's model with memberships & donations within live chats. Patreon better hope YT doesn't encroach into their model.
I don't see how Rubin/Jordanson will make much headway into that market. It's not their thing & they're coming at it from an angle of "same as Patreon but with Sargon". There's always a limit to anti-political correctness & when theirs is reached they'll run into the same issues.
Comments
(Old Spike)
What exactly is "the problem"?
(Old Spike)
You missed that in the video? They talked about it at length. They even referred to it as "the problem".
(Old Spike)
I heard them talking on censorship. I find it hard to listen to these guys though. What's the executive summary of 'the problem'?
(Site Administrator)
my understanding is this, the issue is two fold concurrently involving the new payment tear charges and cencorship.
the new payment charges (and i can't find the figures atm so i may be off feel free to correct me) charge something like a higher percentage for small ammounts. in a nut shell you get a lot less for one off and those dollar a month types.
as for censorship they've gone full youtube demonitization style for things they don't like which is subjectivly up to them. i found a video on it here:
(Old Spike)
The large, monolithic corporations that facilitate online monetary exchange and serve as proxies for cash are beginning to exert censorship control over creators and those who fund them by targeting the platforms (Patreon, SubscribeStar) that use their services with ultimatums, forcing them to ban certain creators (all over the political spectrum) or lose the ability to use their service as an an online payment vector. There are various theories as to why banks and tech are colluding to do this - I'd go with the idea that this is the organic inevitable evolution of the kind of systems we're putting in place and the nature of those who exert the most leverage over those systems and how we use them. They are happy to use the amplified outrage of organized identitarians to seize this kind of power and control, and they will use it on everyone if it can be firmly established. It won't be long, I think, before YouTube crashes and burns under the weight of the rift between it's corporate culture and majority of those who use the platform. They don't even release their earnings last I checked - they are folded into Google and no one knows what the money generated by YouTube is used for, last I checked.
I have no idea if this Rubin/Peterson idea is going to pan out.
(Old Spike)
I've seen that conspiracy theory around that the credit card companies are putting pressure on Patreon to act in a certain way but it seems like horse shit.
The financial model you mentioned was announced but then rolled back due to a backlash [source - see 3rd paragraph]
What if Patreon just want to enforce certain levels of decency within their platform?
(Old Spike)
She literally tells Matt in the call transcript Makey posted above that the reason for these bans and a non-uniform, individually subjective evaluation of each Patreon creator based on their entire public profile is due mainly to pressure from the payment companies. LOL all of the data that can answer your questions is literally at your fingertips, in this post/thread.
(Old Spike)
That video is super annoying. Somehow Sargon managed to find a voice that's more annoying than his own. Kudos I guess. The transcript is here
It looks like their concern is brand reputation & it extends to all Creators as well as the payment processors they use. It's a bit weird what she said about the payment processors but it could be that there's a partnership in the works or just the fact that Patreon is a corporation & Visa/Mastercard etc can bury them in the court system if any issues came up so Patreon is being proactive & playing it safe. It's really all speculation at this point.
Their actions seem to be maintaining a level of 'social decency', not going after a particulay political faction. They have a compaint mechanism which will always be at the detrement of polarizing characters like Sargon. Advocates of free speech who target the far-left need to keep their noses extra clean. It's not a conspiracy, it's just reality.
(Site Administrator)
welp, it's going to fuck patreon in the end. if they couldn't or wouldn't find a work around the rats will leave the ship and they are in droves. testament to the power of the free world market, rejoice in the fact that these days there are viable alternatives.
youtube it's self is the big ticket item here. they are demonitizing at a decent rate but as for outright banning a bunch of power creators? yeah that's an interesting situation.
oh btw how was you new year man?
(Old Spike)
NYE was boring but satisfying. Just went out for dinner. Was delishus. Yours?
I think you may have a point about Youtube. It's copied Twitch's model with memberships & donations within live chats. Patreon better hope YT doesn't encroach into their model.
I don't see how Rubin/Jordanson will make much headway into that market. It's not their thing & they're coming at it from an angle of "same as Patreon but with Sargon". There's always a limit to anti-political correctness & when theirs is reached they'll run into the same issues.