That's right, and we're laughing for completely different reasons.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
Hey Skeptoid - how do you compare your notion of God with this guy's?
https://youtu.be/GDLXPpooA18?t=1463
is it comparible?
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
No, not at all. I'm much closer to Peterson, who is actually much closer to what you see above in the "joke video" than I think many who are triggered realize. I think it's a mistake to assign granular motives to God, and to suggest he involves Himself and takes sides in the tribal politics of human beings. God is too often used, as he is in the case of the link you offered, as the authority to which someone appeals to justify their worldly claims of justice. I don't do that, and if fact I believe Christ laid down a principle establishing that this is wrong. The Kingdom of Heaven is separate from the laws of men, and Christ describes its effects (not rules) in the Sermon on the Mount. I also don't know what the man means by "God created us" - he could mean anything from the classic metaphor of Genesis to "We live inside a simulation and God is whatever flipped it on".
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
He's a Shia Muslim scholar so my guess is that what he says lines up with his religion (God created everything, I assume). I dunno I've never studied religion itself, just more looked at the historic aspects.
It seems funny you say you agree with JP's non-answer. Does that mean you can't articulate God or that you would really struggle to put the concept into words?
Also, you mentioned how you differ in the moral aspect - do you think the 10 commandments are legit or...?
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
By definition, God is an entity that cannot be fully encapsulated by human description. I tend to look at the history of human religion as human beings trying to understand God, and that understanding evolving over time, and the one conceit I suppose I hold is that we've been moving in the direction of more accurately understanding God in the same way we've moved in the direction of more accuratley understanding the universe He created (whatever created means). I think the two things run parralel to each other, and are SUPPSED to inform each other, and that the Nietzchean dilemma, the fault of which can be placed equally at the foot of the parasitic and presumptive ideologies that characterize both religion and science, has retarded our development towards integrating these two poles in a manner that would allow us to more rapidly move down that path of understanding God and the universe.
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danmanjones (Old Spike)
If God created the universe then do you think there is only 1 God or is it possible that it's a spectrum, or that he has peers?
(maybe his mates created different universes, in some kind of abstract way?)
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skeptoid (Old Spike)
That's possible - it's certainly on Neil Degrasse Tyson's mind. But it gets even more complicated - what if what we have here is a hierarchical simulation of multi-verses, where it's simulations inside of simulations inside of simulations going all the way back to...the real deal? And once you get to the real deal, what is that? Is that, like, a singularity to end all singularities? When you look at how science has tried to puzzle these things out it certainly *seems* like the universe is something that was infinite but completely different, where time and space had no meaning, and then suddenly it broke itself into all of these finite pieces that *seem* to be constantly trying to re-combine in various forms. Will the universe expand into an incomprehensibly cold nothingness or shrink back down to less than one dimension?
There *does* seem to be a natural tendency, in our universe anyway, towards unity even though the path towards it is full of things flying apart, exploding, being ejected here and there, etc. Chaotic systems seem to move towards an equilibrium of stable order for, from our perspective, long periods of time before chaos reigns again. When I really go out on a limb and speculate hard I get this sense that the universe is what happens when something infinite figures out one day how to invent and explore the finite with the intent of that "being good" in some way that we don't fully comprehend.
Comments
(Old Spike)
Now that one was funny, kudos!
(Old Spike)
That's right, and we're laughing for completely different reasons.
(Old Spike)
Hey Skeptoid - how do you compare your notion of God with this guy's?
https://youtu.be/GDLXPpooA18?t=1463
is it comparible?
(Old Spike)
No, not at all. I'm much closer to Peterson, who is actually much closer to what you see above in the "joke video" than I think many who are triggered realize. I think it's a mistake to assign granular motives to God, and to suggest he involves Himself and takes sides in the tribal politics of human beings. God is too often used, as he is in the case of the link you offered, as the authority to which someone appeals to justify their worldly claims of justice. I don't do that, and if fact I believe Christ laid down a principle establishing that this is wrong. The Kingdom of Heaven is separate from the laws of men, and Christ describes its effects (not rules) in the Sermon on the Mount. I also don't know what the man means by "God created us" - he could mean anything from the classic metaphor of Genesis to "We live inside a simulation and God is whatever flipped it on".
(Old Spike)
He's a Shia Muslim scholar so my guess is that what he says lines up with his religion (God created everything, I assume). I dunno I've never studied religion itself, just more looked at the historic aspects.
It seems funny you say you agree with JP's non-answer. Does that mean you can't articulate God or that you would really struggle to put the concept into words?
Also, you mentioned how you differ in the moral aspect - do you think the 10 commandments are legit or...?
(Old Spike)
By definition, God is an entity that cannot be fully encapsulated by human description. I tend to look at the history of human religion as human beings trying to understand God, and that understanding evolving over time, and the one conceit I suppose I hold is that we've been moving in the direction of more accurately understanding God in the same way we've moved in the direction of more accuratley understanding the universe He created (whatever created means). I think the two things run parralel to each other, and are SUPPSED to inform each other, and that the Nietzchean dilemma, the fault of which can be placed equally at the foot of the parasitic and presumptive ideologies that characterize both religion and science, has retarded our development towards integrating these two poles in a manner that would allow us to more rapidly move down that path of understanding God and the universe.
(Old Spike)
If God created the universe then do you think there is only 1 God or is it possible that it's a spectrum, or that he has peers?
(maybe his mates created different universes, in some kind of abstract way?)
(Old Spike)
That's possible - it's certainly on Neil Degrasse Tyson's mind. But it gets even more complicated - what if what we have here is a hierarchical simulation of multi-verses, where it's simulations inside of simulations inside of simulations going all the way back to...the real deal? And once you get to the real deal, what is that? Is that, like, a singularity to end all singularities? When you look at how science has tried to puzzle these things out it certainly *seems* like the universe is something that was infinite but completely different, where time and space had no meaning, and then suddenly it broke itself into all of these finite pieces that *seem* to be constantly trying to re-combine in various forms. Will the universe expand into an incomprehensibly cold nothingness or shrink back down to less than one dimension?
There *does* seem to be a natural tendency, in our universe anyway, towards unity even though the path towards it is full of things flying apart, exploding, being ejected here and there, etc. Chaotic systems seem to move towards an equilibrium of stable order for, from our perspective, long periods of time before chaos reigns again. When I really go out on a limb and speculate hard I get this sense that the universe is what happens when something infinite figures out one day how to invent and explore the finite with the intent of that "being good" in some way that we don't fully comprehend.