penn & teller on vaccinations

sal9000's picture

Penn and Teller on Vaccinations

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_vD6wVVIAMcdw2.jpg

decades upon decades of vaccination for these things and were not dealing with leaky vaccines spinning off into deadlier variants. so. i think. we should unvaxx the anti-vax. give them a jab to introduce all the stuff tried to exterminate

4.42857
Average: 4.4 (7 votes)

Comments

daftcunt's picture
Discord userfront page

The "LEAKY" hypothesis is just another thing that crops up when antivaxxers run out of arguments. A bit like the "god of the gaps" argument.

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
backdraft's picture
Beta TesterDiscord userImage gallery

 

i ii

 

Leaky leaky. 

 

 

As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated. Of the vaccinated, 87% were 60 or older. “There are so many breakthrough infections that they dominate and most of the hospitalized patients are actually vaccinated,” says Uri Shalit, a bioinformatician at the Israel Institute of Technology (Technion) who has consulted on COVID-19 for the government. “One of the big stories from Israel [is]: ‘Vaccines work, but not well enough.’”

 

https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

+1
+1
-1
Vote comment up/down
backdraft's picture
Beta TesterDiscord userImage gallery

Another interesting read. References under the article.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1

 

+1
+1
-1
Vote comment up/down
Raining Blood's picture

their is probably a reason why you guys keep refering to an article from last month.

 

nature came out with one from last week about the booster doing well. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02516-4

+1
-1
-1
Vote comment up/down
skeptoid's picture

The fact that there's studies from last month that support what we're saying and studies from last week that support what you're saying and studies from next month that will support what we're saying and studies from a month and a half from now that'll support what you're saying is a giant red flag that should seriously concern you if you understood how Western society under empirical science reaches complete conclusions about what's actually going on. At the very least you should be able to admit that the condemnatory admonitions on the news channels you watch ordering people to do things they aren't comfortable with doing with an authoritative certainty is a colossal mistake. Everything is being politicized and you say that I am the propaganda but you're the person who needs to make this a political issue and why do you need to do that? Because the TV told you to and it's really that simple.

+1
-1
-1
Vote comment up/down
backdraft's picture
Beta TesterDiscord userImage gallery

I'm not arguing that the vaccine doesn't offer protection at all. Those who are at serious risk from covid should get the vaccine, but again only IF the want it. 

I'm saying the data is pointing that it doesn't prevent the spread all that well, at least when it comes to the Delta variant.  That's what we really want, is to stop it from spreading so this pandemic would stop some day, but it's not looking good.  Maybe a world wide total lock down for 2 weeks would be more effective but good luck with that. In the end it would be way cheaper than to drag out this out for years.

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
daftcunt's picture
Discord userfront page

What you forgot to delete from your quote:

"Vaccines work"

+1
+1
-1
Vote comment up/down
backdraft's picture
Beta TesterDiscord userImage gallery

I think you got me confused for antivaxxers. 

Maybe the subject is too nuanced for you to consider that there could be more than two sides to this.

OR maybe it's just that you took the vaccine so it's kinda of a personal attack if someone says something critical about it. 

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
sal9000's picture
front page

your not an expert and you're not anti-vax. its just everything you say is against vaccination and you keep doing it. thats being an antivaxxer

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
backdraft's picture
Beta TesterDiscord userImage gallery

I don't recall. If I did explicitly say that nobody should take the vaccine, then your going to have to point to that post.

Do you think this is a totally "one or the other" situation?

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
sal9000's picture
front page

is their an amount of poison that you wouldn't consider poison? the stuff you've been saying is the same stuff skeptoid has been saying and its the same thing jdt73 says, and its the same thing theblackswordsman says. and its the same thing sempelacious says and its the same thing kingofcroydonia says and its the same thing that right wing media says and its the same thing..... this just like the election. same bad info passing through the tiers

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
backdraft's picture
Beta TesterDiscord userImage gallery

When I say something on this topic I always try to base it on science / expert (who has some experience in the field) or at the very least some basic common sense ideas.  I try to resist posting news articles but I think posting something from Nature or Science sites isn't that big of a strech.  If that alings with someones political ideas, well though luck. I'm not really into politics myself and don't draw ideas or information from that.   

 

Where do you get most of your covid info? Media or plain old science papers?  

 

When it comes to regulation and mandates, how much do you think there's politics mixed with science and how often is that science still incomplete?

When theres billions being spent on these vaccines, do you think it could be possible by any streach of the imagination that someone might want to push a few buttons here and there? 

The fact that the FDA is 45% funded by the very companies that it's supposed to regulate causes you no concern?

 

Everything is black and white, clear cut, and done by the book?

 

 

 

 

 

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
sal9000's picture
front page

if you base what you say on science and experts, have you posted about Katalin Karikó?

 

i took biology in school but for alot of these convos its overkill, would be fine with a few episodes of the magic school bus

 

if the science wasn't complete, we wouldnt be doing it. science gives us the vaccines which we all using. politics affects the regulations and mandates which is why different places have different results. telling someone your in a republican/conservative state/province more or less tells them the condition of your hospitals and morgues

you don't even need fda approval. we take alot of stuff that isn't. fda approval was never meant to be the hill to die on, just a moving goal post for the ant-vax and it causes me absolutely no concern

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
backdraft's picture
Beta TesterDiscord userImage gallery

Carry on then

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
skeptoid's picture

Notice how he completely disassociates what a person is saying with whether or not what they're saying is true. The truth has absolutely no bearing on what you should believe and what you should say with hegel's German idealism which is the basis of modern wokeism. His tribe is trying to create an effect you see. And whether that effect is something that is based in reality or not is besides the point. It's the alchemy that's important in this dialectical process and the truth is neither here nor there. What matters is the power of the tribe and whether you are a part of that tribe or not. It's pretty sick eh?

+1
-1
-1
Vote comment up/down
daftcunt's picture
Discord userfront page

Nothing anyone says about vaccines I take personal, irrespective of how deluded the comments are. 

 

Like sal said, your comments regarding the issue would qualify you as an antivaxxer to me, not skeptoid level but still...

 

Did you get vaccinated?

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
backdraft's picture
Beta TesterDiscord userImage gallery

Haven't been vaccinated and I doubt I will. 

Non of my close family have and we never even really talked about. Everyone just decided not to. I guess non of us take it that seriously...

My kids haven't taken it even though the school is offering it to anyone who wants it. I've never said a word to them about the vaccine, they just decided on their own not to do it. If they did want to take it, I wouldn't stop them. Only thing I've really mentioned to them is that the virus is usually not serious for kids.  

 

A few years back they were giving HPV vaccines in the schools. Then I did talk to them about that and wasn't for it, but again I gave them the choice to do what they want. One of my kids took it, the other didn't.

 

It think my last shot was 5 years ago for Tetanus.

 

 

+1
-1
-1
Vote comment up/down
skeptoid's picture

Is there any difference between how these vaccines were developed and produced and rolled out to the populations and the vaccines we produced and rolled out decades before? Any Delta at all? Anyone? Anyone?

 

Vaccines have always been leaky but no vaccines in history have been as leaky as these vaccines and called a successful vaccine. And when you combine a Swiss cheese vaccine with a massive propaganda campaign for Mass societal vaccination with said leaky vaccine all we have are hypotheses and theories about what might unfold in such an unknown space. A lot of the hypotheses and theories present scenarios that look very bad and align with what appears to be happening right now.

 

Hey sal what's your position on the dangers of secondhand smoke?

+1
-1
-1
Vote comment up/down
sal9000's picture
front page

yea. there is a big difference. we have better technology, we can develop and distribute quicker than any previous time. the downfall is that up to this point, it was never profitable to grift on a anti-vaccination stance. the last vaccine that was mandated on us was a hep shot in the 90's. we didn't have a tv personalities or radio jockeys telling us to not get it

 

here's my hypotheses based on what we know for a fact. more people would be dead if we didn't have a vaccine(s) and the only thing detractors can say is that based on nothing credible, something unknown might happen in an unknown amount of time and the best course of action is to do nothing at all

 

my position is that secondhand smoke is dangerous. there is no ideal amount of carcinogens to inhale. it has no positives to it

+1
0
-1
Vote comment up/down
skeptoid's picture

So a week before COVID hit a vaccine took X amount of time, but then COVID hit and we "developed better technology" so we could produce and distribute more quickly? And all of these indisputable experts who are saying this vaccine produced with said "new technology" is shit - in some places showing 50% breakthrough infections for the vaccinated (they just don't get as sick, from COVID, right then and there) - that these people are just grifters trying to carve a space to make money? You still haven't watched the mRNA vaccine inventor talk for 45 minutes about what's wrong here. Now, this thing about the "new technology" - is this just something you believe - wait a minute, did you read an article? Did you read something somewhere that gave you non-politicized info? Oh look at you - source? It wouldn't surprise if "new technology" was used to roll this out more rapidly - they said in the beginning it was impossible to do this. If I had to guess, based on the results, this new technology is probably almost as good as what Theranos innovated into existence. And, by the way, most of this is on Trump, eh? The whole "we'll get this done in a quarter of the time" you applaud - the one thing Trump did you applaud could be the worst thing he EVER did. If this vaccine turns out to be the shit it's looking to be, most of this is Trump's fault since the buck stopped with him.

 

"more people would be dead if we didn't have a vaccine(s) and the only thing detractors can say is that based on nothing credible, something unknown might happen in an unknown amount of time and the best course of action is to do nothing at all"

 

That's not hypothesis - it's some poorly thought out words strung together with a bit dismissive attitude. 

 

"my position is that secondhand smoke is dangerous. there is no ideal amount of carcinogens to inhale. it has no positives to it"

 

Penn and Teller think you're a fucking moron.

+1
-1
-1
Vote comment up/down