whistleblower doctor dies

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danmanjones's picture

He wasn't "blowing the whistle" he was discussing it with colleagues.

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sal9000's picture
Master Mind

that they later posted online, resulting in this letter

https://i.insider.com/5e3c573ee35bab10997760ba?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp

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danmanjones's picture

Yeah, the post he made about SARS started a rumour & the local police told him to STFU.

 
The health authorities had already been alerted before his social media post & the WHO had already been called in. The patients were quarantined & the virus was under investigation.

 

They locked down the city 3 weeks after this rumour went viral, once they knew what they were dealing with. Could it have been quicker? Probably. Do you shut down a city based on rumours? Nope.

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Hansimus's picture

Are you a chinese government apologist? every post you make; and reply to; seems indicative of a person who truly believes nothing bad is happening.

 

 

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Csmack's picture

LOL in just about every coronavirus post you're providing cover and doing damage control for the CPC. Out of curiousity, is do you have some sort of family history tied to CPC or is this a courtesy you do for all authoritarian communist governments? Why the emphatic need to defend them against a preponderance of evidence that shows otherwise?

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lawngnome's picture

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffc07.deviantart.net%2Ffs70%2Fi%2F2011%2F318%2Ff%2Fe%2Fwhistle___barcelona_s_gay_pride_parade_by_rei_bcn-d4g59gr.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

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danmanjones's picture

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sal9000's picture
Master Mind

as you said. local police told him to STFU, not doctors, and more specifically, stop with the illegal activity. what illegal acitivity was he doing? having a convo about a potential virus and posting it online.

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danmanjones's picture

AFAIK it's illegal to spread malicious misinformation online in China & the police got him on a technicality because he said it was SARS. Why they did this & who ordered them to I dunno, it's something that's been discussed a lot over there but I'm not in the loop, I don't care too much 2bh.

 

It's up to the Chinese authorities to decide if he did anything illegal. The highest court in China has said he did nothing wrong & has lauded him for his efforts. Chinese social media are treating him like a hero & has been pissed off about his arrest since the story broke in late January. All I'm saying is he wasn't a whistleblower - he wasn't alerting anyone about unlawful or immoral activity. He warned colleagues to be careful, they warned family/friends & it went from there.

 

If you want a bit more info read this [link]

 

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sal9000's picture
Master Mind
danmanjones's picture

Yeah I added that top paragraph to address you actual question. You can reply immediately with just a single character to lock my comment if you want. It's just a bad habit, I don't think you need to blow it out of proportion, fuck all changed from the original reply.

 

You seem to be more interested in proving something rather than what the nature of the actual situation is.

 

If you still think he was a "whistleblower", what crime or immoral behaviour was he blowing the whistle on?

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danmanjones's picture

Some info about China's anti-misinformation laws/methods...

 

China

Action: Laws and online reporting portal

Focus: Misinformation

 

China has some of the strictest laws in the world when it comes to misinformation.

 

In 2016, the government criminalized creating or spreading rumors that “undermine economic and social order,” Foreign Policy reportedAnother law in 2017 requires social media platforms to solely republish and link to news articles from registered news media. This year, authorities went one step further and started requiring microblogging sites to highlight and refute rumors on their platforms.

 

In late August 2018, Chinese authorities launched an app that lets people report potential fakery. Reuters reported that the app, which also leverages artificial intelligence to automatically detect rumors, has accounts on platforms like Weibo and WeChat, on which it broadcasts reports from state-owned media.

 

https://www.poynter.org/ifcn/anti-misinformation-actions/

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danmanjones's picture

Here's what that police document says

On December 30, 2019, WeChat group "Wuhan University Clinical Level 04" published 7 cases of SARS diagnosed in South China fruit and seafood market that are not true.

 

Your behavior severely disrupts social order. Your behavior has exceeded the scope permitted by law, and it violates the relevant provisions of the Law of the People's Republic of China on Public Security Administration Punishment, which is an illegal act! The public security organ hopes that you will actively cooperate with your work, obey the rules of the police, and stop the illegal behavior.

 

We hope you calm down and reflect carefully, and solemnly tell you: If you are stubborn, do not think about repentance, and continue to carry out illegal activities, you will be punished by law!

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Dude's picture

Lol and you defend this kind of system? that is just sickening, chinas government is ugly and everything that surrounds it is, this is why Hong Kong wont have it, do you atleast understand where we come from?

And this doctor was arrested, and for all we know he was infected on purpose, i wouldent be supprised

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danmanjones's picture

Firstly I'm not defending a system here I'm trying to shed some light on a particular case & am anal about the word "whistlebower" because it's overused & AFAIK doesn't apply here. 

 

Dr Li Wenliang was a hero - he worked on the frontlines against a deadly enemy, doing his best to save people. I don't know all the details surrounding why he was reprimanded, it looks like a local government issue. It's sparked a national social media firestorm in China, they can sort it out.

 

The unrest in Hong Kong is largely the result of the American government meddling in foreign affairs. If you don't understand how colour revolutions work then I get why you'd think it's some natural occurrance.

 

I also get why my opinion about Li Wenliang is unpopular but I don't shape my opinions around what other people think or what CNN etc tells me. So far I've seen no reason to think that warning people about the virus at that time was the way to go, it's a very unpopular thing to question this, in the West & in China where they're raging against the local Wuhan govt on social media for taking this action. I base my opinion of facts though, what do you base yours on?

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Dude's picture

You know sometimes it is better to just keep quiet, i asked you if he was arrested a week ago, and you said no, i knew he was because i base my knowledge on all information i can get, and your info is not realy info, just fake news from the Chinese media.

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danmanjones's picture

He wasn't arrested.

 
If you think I'm spouting disinfo then prove it. I welcome being corrected. If there's anything you're doubtful about then verify it yourself & share what you find.

 

Being quiet about this guy might have been better I agree but I'm not here looking to gain clout or credibility. On rare occasion I'll throw something out there I don't know for sure if it's true & hope someone will argue about it so we can figure it out. Usually though I only say things I can verify & that pass the smell test.

 

WIth Dr Li I find it pretty cynical for Western media to be jumping on it like they have. Another doctor died a few days ago of a heart attack after working long hours 10 days straight & they didn't mention him. All of the medical staff on the frontlines are heroic IMO. It's obvious there's an agenda behind why they've got blanket coverage about Dr Li's death & it's the usual hypocrisy IMO. They want this to pry the Chinese people away from their government... PRC govt has exrtemely high trust from its people but it's taking a hit with the reporting & social media outcry on this.

 

I call it as I see it Dude. I'm not here to kiss your ass & I'm not going to keep quiet about shit I think is wrong or unfair just to appease people.

 

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Dude's picture

Oke i will ask you one more question, where did the cops talk to him? 

A- at his home

B- at the police station

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danmanjones's picture

I'm not sure but I think it was at the police station.

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Raining Blood's picture

Dr Li Wenliang got epsteined

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danmanjones's picture

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Raining Blood's picture

https://i.redd.it/exq71pvk1vkz.jpg

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danmanjones's picture

way to demonstrate you are a free thinker!

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Raining Blood's picture

way to demonstrate you are a free thinker!

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danmanjones's picture

lol @ the votes in here.

Casting meaningless votes is an American tradition.

Thinking critically? Not so much.

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sal9000's picture
Master Mind

previous comment before edit

 

"lol @ the votes.

 

Americans are funny. The best joke is when they tell you how brainwashed other people are. Free speech is useless when you can't think critically & votes are meaningless when they don't change anything."

 

maybe i'll come back and comment on that

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danmanjones's picture

lmao!

 

why don't any of you comment on whether this guy is a "whistleblower"?

 

Here, I'll start:

For there to be a case of a whistleblower, several conditions need to be met:

  1. There has to be truth or fact
  2. That truth is known to an individual and a group
  3. The group hides the truth
  4. The individual reveals the truth to the world

NONE of these happened in Wuhan!

 

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sal9000's picture
Master Mind

just to make it obvious, we have hindsight.

1. the dr said it was sars. turned out to be sars like, an actual clade of sars.

2. dr said it was sars which can transmit from person to person. which coronavirus does.

3. Wuhan’s health bureau said "The investigation so far has not found any obvious human-to-human"

http://wjw.wuhan.gov.cn/front/web/showDetail/2019123108989

4. his words got posted online.

 

not targeted at anything,  it's just a good read. it's a a paper written a bit about the virus and talks about 1 infected guy infected 10 hospital workers and 4 other patients in the same ward.

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2761044?guestAccessKey...

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danmanjones's picture

1 - yeah he had it wrong, therefore it wasn't the truth

2 - human-to-human spread wasn't known until weeks later

3 - see 2

4 - his words were not the truth

- he was an optomoligist, not an expert in the field, he literally posted a rumour

- the rumour went viral, it's unlikely this was intended

- a central CDC field team had begun investigating prior to his post
 

There may be some wiggle room here for you in saying that his post sparked a chain of events that forced someone in the Wuhan CDC to alert the WHO on Dec 31 because the cat was out of the bag. This is unclear & I'm reserving my judgement. There is a team from central govt investigating how it played out.

 

This isn't an endorsement of the Police suppressing the rumour or that how the Wuhan or China CDC does things is perfect. That's another conversation, one that's being had in China now, on social media & with authorities investiging it. It'll likely result in more involvement of central govt in such cases in future.

 

I just still think his action of sparking a rumour doesn't make him a "whistleblower". There's nothing anyone could have done differently at that point, it was an unknown thing.

 

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sal9000's picture
Master Mind

virus started around the 12th of december. china started to close down parts of wuhan after around the 20th of january and on the feb 3rd, china blaimed the usa for traveling restrictions to those entering the country from china and spreading fear

 

"The U.S. government has not provided any substantial assistance to us, but it was the first to evacuate personnel from its Consulate in Wuhan, the first to suggest partial withdrawal of its embassy staff, and the first to impose a travel ban on Chinese travelers. All it has done could only create and spread fear, which is a bad example"

 

it's like it was in china's interest to keep the borders open for as long as possible for the virus to spread. but one man knew more then the chinese experts

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danmanjones's picture

virus started around the 12th of december

The first patient was admitted with the virus on Dec 1 so the virus probably jumped to humans a few days or a week prior to that in November.

 

china blaimed the usa for traveling restrictions

yeah because the WHO recommended not doing that. It's a bit hypocritical tho because they did the same thing to Mexico during the Swine Flu pandemic in 2009.

 

one man knew more then the chinese experts

lol. I don't know if you're talking about Dr. Li or Mike Pompeo but it's funny either way.

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sal9000's picture
Master Mind

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danmanjones's picture

Dr Li's WeChat group message went out on Dec 30.

The virus was under investigation since 27 Dec.

 

Zhang Dingyu and Zhang jixianji (experts in epidemic prevention and control) have been rewarded for how they handled the outbreak. "Whistleblower" is a more fitting description for Dr Zhang but it still doesn't apply. There was no crime or immoral activity being covered up.

 

On the morning of December 26, 2019, Zhang Jixian accepted an elderly couple in the neighborhood of the hospital at the expert clinic. The chest CT film of the two elderly people who went to the hospital for fever and cough was completely different from other viral pneumonia. Zhang Jixian asked the old couple to call his son for an examination. The son had no symptoms, but CT showed special manifestations in the lungs. On the same day, there was a merchant from the South China Seafood Market who had the same fever, cough and lung performance. Zhang Jixian performed a number of flu-related tests on these patients based on his high sensitivity to the epidemic situation of the infectious diseases, all of which were negative, thereby eliminating the flu. On the 27th, she timely reported the situation of the four to the hospital's leaders, and the hospital quickly reported to the Jianghan District Disease Control Center. On the 28th and 29th, the outpatient clinic successively treated 3 patients from the South China Seafood Market. Symptoms and lung performance were consistent in 7 patients before and after. Zhang Jixian immediately reported to the hospital that the hospital held a multi-departmental consultation and discussed the seven cases one by one. After that, two more similar patients were asked and treated at Tongji Hospital and Xiehe Hospital. They also came from the South China Seafood Market. The hospital attached great importance to it and immediately reported it, creating conditions for the provincial and municipal health departments to respond quickly to the disposal.

[sauce]

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danmanjones's picture

This sheds light on the timeline of events surrounding the "whistleblower"...

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Hellmasker's picture

Interesting story. My local news station says there are 26000-27000 infected world wide. Militaries seem to be involved. About 500 dead. I do wonder what an eye doctor was doing talking about SARS which I haven't heard about in 10 years.

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sal9000's picture
Master Mind

thats days ago. 723 dead in china and over 34000 infected.

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danmanjones's picture

AFAIK he shared his opinion in a private chat group of 8 people. Someone took a screenshot & warned their friends/family & it blew up from there, 500k people saw it on the first day.

 

You can keep tabs on the spread here.

 

IMO if you're outside Asia you shouldn't be worried. Separating the world from the cases from Hubei or from Asia gives a different picture...

- these stats are from about a 1-2 days ago:

 

Live stats show, the # of cases outside Asia has risen by 10 since then:

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sal9000's picture
Master Mind

1-2 days ago? that puts the death rate either at 84 or 169 a day. seem like a big difference?

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danmanjones's picture

It depends what you call big I guess. It's in that ballpark, slightly over 100 almost exclusively inside Hubei Province. IMO the quarantine is causing more problems for that province because it strains the health facilities there. It's a sacrafice they're making that seems to be going completely unnoticed. Can't say I'm surprised about the reactions. Disgusted but not surprised.

 

Edit: The number of new cases has gone down for 3 days straight. It may be at an inflection point.

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bannik's picture

anything you say comrade Xhe Be Lie Ing

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danmanjones's picture

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monkeymania's picture

Phew! It seemed like it could have become really serious.

 

Coronavirus outbreak: Trump says he expects virus to ‘go away’ in April as ‘heat comes in’

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Raining Blood's picture
monkeymania's picture

Vox/CIA disinfo

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Raining Blood's picture

map of the exedus of the chinese people during the weeks before lockdown

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12307485

 

5 million left wuhan before lockdown

https://www.businessinsider.com/5-million-left-wuhan-before-coronavirus-...

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danmanjones's picture

Wuhan is the largest transport hub in the country. It was coming up to the Spring Festival - the largest yearly migration of people in the world. Exit screening started Jan 15 as a precaution. Human-to-human transmission was confirmed on Jan 19 & the city was locked down within 1-2 days.

At what point did the US take national action or even lockdown a city when the Swine Flu was discovered there?

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lawngnome's picture

Damn.  this is where everyone has been hanging out   : (

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bannik's picture

Hey beautiful 

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lawngnome's picture

Hey hey.   I just got banned from /r/worldnews for the 3rd time...  Everyone's acting like the world is ending and shit, over this china thing.  

 

This time was for asking if china can be put on food pellets, and saying that I wanted to get a tail transplant to become a kangaroo.     And that i'd need my own kangaroo bathroom.

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bannik's picture

I miss berg :(

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Dude's picture

YES WE NEED MORE CAPS!!!!!!!

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bannik's picture

FO SHO!!!!!

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Dude's picture

Just received a video that is not on youtube yet, chinese police executing ppl in the street streets full of blood bangs and screaming police in plastic suits you want the video add me on whatsapp 32486026473

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danmanjones's picture

what's the file size?

If under 8mb, can you share it on here?
https://discord.gg/V3UkqN

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Dude's picture

Its already uploaded don't add me

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danmanjones's picture

The real COVID-19 whistleblower:

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